Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Final Drive

Cutting a road on side of steep hill

25 posts in this topic

I recently started building a road for my neighbor thats about a half mile long where the first 300 feet cut along the side of a steep hill (about 50 degree angle uphill from level.) My question is how did the pros work these old machines with no tilt, side to side on their blades or in my case the bucket, to cut into the high side of a hill & move material to the downhill side of a road ? I`m doing it by moving my 3 rippers to the high side of the 5 slots in the tool bar & heading downhill on the roughed in road. Then I head uphill,bucket down to scoop up the broken up dirt to to fill up bucket & pivot downhill to dump load, back scrape & repeate over & over again gradually working my way uphill. Is this how the pros did it? I`m using ancient TD6 drott skid loader,standard bucket, no R.O.P. Is there a better way?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wondered that one myself there Finaldrive, I know there

was some talk about it here awhile back, but as usual can't remember specifics.

Gilligan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about some pics of project. Sawmill will be more help than me beings most of my road construction scares your average goat :P:P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do you eat a horse? One bite at a time..... :D:P:D

Just kiddin...I have no idea what I'm doing most of the time.....the key is making it look like you do :lol: I've found with mine patience is definately a virtue. Here is what I do know, spend some time on your landing/start point, cause that will determine how it will end up. good luck.

Just noticed you have a loader....might make it interesting.

Some pics would help

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Much easyer to work downhill and use gravity to your advantage......to keep things reasonably level, crosswise, keep a ridge of material on the outside of the cut, and put the outside track on this as needed. With 'dozer or bucket, material will have to be swung over the outside to avoid building up too much directly in front of the machine. When done the full length of cut, this ridge can be graded off to make a wider road. Working uphill makes for a very gradual incline, and works the heck out of the machine. One secret to accomplishing a gradual incline in as short a distance as possable, is to make the side cut going against the flow of water, as in a ravine situation, if location permits. Have timmed to "finnished" condition, cut and fill slopes on roads/highways without the aid of hydraulic tilts on the angle dozer more often than I care to remember, and this was done by working parralell with the slope, NOT going up and down with a straight blade. Possable to trim a near two to one slope in this manner, but must be done in a once over effort, moving a maximum amount of material the machine will push/roll, which holds the equipment to the slope. Undercarriage MUST be in top notch condition to avoid walking out of the tracks, and, this is terribly hard on sprockets and rails, not to mention the effects on the operator.......posted much of this on ibdozing, which is now in the archives, ....have a good one, R.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Start on a level spot, dig from the upper side

and dump it as fill to the lower side. Don't

worry about finish grading until you get your

road cut and level. Just don't run out on loose

fill. Make short fills and your loader will compact

it as you go. I have built miles of road with a

trackloader. Once you get enough dirt pushed

and dumped out in front of you. You can just

roll the bucket to the full dump position and

spread it. Just don't get too cocky without a

canopy on loose fill. :lol::lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sawmill

That must be my problem I pick the wrong level spot :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry: The hill side was proably flatter before I tried to build road than it was when I finished :(:(:(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank You everyone for the replies. As for requests for pictures I`d love to but all I have is this obsolete WEB TV machine & digital pictures aren`t possible ,sorry. To ragnor the comment of making a side cut against the flow of water to gain gradual incline in a short distance befuddles me ...must dumb down befores I can understand. The trick seems to be able to build up a ridge exactly where the lower track will follow & that takes finness thats hard to put into words. not exactly sure how to do that yet but I can fake it if someones watching.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mostly good advice here,it takes a long time to make a machine "behave" and think like you do so get used to the frustrations and accept that this is how you learn.

Basically as was said before here you need to get the machine in "position" to do the work you need to accomplish.Keep in mind that a straight line is not the neccessarily the quickest way to get to your objective.

Think always about the position thing that I mentioned,in your case the way to achieve that is building a berm on the low side to run your track on and you can feel your way along as you go and don't be too brave as Sawmill said.

You have the advantage of a bucket which will help with the compaction too if you roll back and forth over your work with it full.

Go slow and take your time,if you don't have another piece of equipment around to pull you out you will want to be even more careful about what you attempt.

One thing to bear in mind when working a steep slope like that is how are you going to contain the bank when you are finished?

You can't have rocks rolling off of the hill and end up blocking your driveway or worse,injuring someone so you will probably have to cut the bank way back and use the material elsewhere.If erosion will be a problem or runoff from heavy rain you will need to cut a swail on the high side which can also serve to catch any rocks that might roll off of the hill.

Don't rush and don't forget,someone has been in the same situation before,it can be done!!:)) Ron G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thank You everyone for the replies.  As for requests for pictures I`d love to but all I have is this obsolete WEB TV machine & digital pictures aren`t possible ,sorry.  To ragnor the comment of making a side cut against the flow of water to gain gradual incline in a short distance befuddles me ...must dumb down befores I can understand. The trick seems to be able to build up a ridge exactly where the lower track will follow & that takes finness thats hard to put into words.  not exactly sure how to do that yet but I can fake it if someones watching.

================================================

just dig in and with the material in your bucket start a berm along the low side. keep the berm level and a bit higher elevation then the other side where your other track travels and this will force your bucket into the material you want to remove. As the berm gets compacted you can dress it up with more material and grade it so you stay slanted into the hillside. works everytime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Being a new crawler owner/operator myself, I bought a copy of "moving the earth" off of EBAY. First printed in the '50's as a textbook for running excavation equipment, it covers all of this kind of stuff in a way that I easily understood. It's also great for the historical perspective with pictures of '50's era equipment on the job. I would recommend it to anyone who has an interest in old equipment, whether you're digging with it or not. It is a large book and used typically sells for $35-$65.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bunch of good advice here. Like Sawmill said, build up your fill as slowly as possible so the crawler can pack it in layers.

One thing I'd like to add, when working on steep slopes, never get both tracks on the same rock or on the same pole, or you may end up going for a ride.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a Td15c owner's manual that talks about that. I'll try to get some scans on it tomarrow.

It basically says to attack it moving down the hill. Create a gouge in the earth using multiple cuts, then finish bulldozing the road by going sideways.

If it's a pretty steep hill, I would imagine it would be a little hair-rising :ph34r:. I think nowadays they would use an excavator for that kind of work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Final Drive......sorry if my comments are confusing......when I mentioned 'bout going against the flow of water, from the top of the hill, to make a lesser incline.....picture, if you will, the slope the water must have, to be able to move....if you start at a given point, near the water course and draw a level line going with the water, you will eventually, [usualy] come to the top of the hill, somewhere down stream. Studying a contour map will help explain this. Loggers, with their limited working area in a block of timber, have to "bull" their way around, as conditions dictate, to move logs/trees from higher elevations to where they can transport the product out of the bush, so lots of their "trails" wind up being way too steep for normal traffic. When one is presented with the option of going from point "A" to point "B" by the best rout, and distance traveled is of lesser importance, then, engineering skills of the operator become paramount, a point which was less than nicely stated by a foreman on one of my first jobs doing this kind of work..." ya had the whole damn mountain to work on, so why did you make the damn trail so steep....?" Hope I haven't muddied already murky waters, further.....have a good one, R.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Being a new crawler owner/operator myself, I bought a copy of "moving the earth" off of EBAY.  First printed in the '50's as a textbook for running excavation equipment, it covers all of this kind of stuff in a way that I easily understood. It's also great for the historical perspective with pictures of '50's era equipment on the job. I would recommend it to anyone who has an interest in old equipment, whether you're digging with it or not. It is a large book and used typically sells for $35-$65.

When I went to Heavy Equipment school at Fort Leonard Wood back in 1960 they handed out a couple of publications from Caterpillar that were about the same size as the comic books of that era,they were in color and one book gave a lot of tips on operating a bulldozer and the other one covered grader operation.

I still have them,in fact I have seen them for sale on ebay in the past.Ron G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I HAVE HEARD THAT CABLE BLADE OPERATORS USED TO PUSH BIG ROCK OR LOG AROUND BUILDING ROADS SO AS TO GET THE START ON AN ANGLE(SLOPED)CUT PUTTING THE FAR TRACK ON IT! NEVER DONE IT MYSELF

TAKE CARE AND HAVE A GOOD ONE ALL!

PAUL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Moving the Earth" is a popular book, usually available at most public library's, if you dont want to buy one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, here's the proverbial picture worth a thousand words. I'm not saying where I got it, only that I didn't draw it ;)

post-2315-1142474791_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no idea what to do, i only play with snow, it is easy to work with and easier on the equipment. i hate to say it but captain crunch knows more then me on this, LOL

thansk

oh nice drawing, LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Real good advice here, just a couple of things I'de like to add.

1) Keep your blade (bucket) close to your work, don't raise it any higher than you need to clear your work when backing up or traveling ahead empty. The reason I say this is, if the road gives out from under you, the blade can be a huge help in keeping you and your rig right side up.

2) If the road does give out and you do begin to tip turn your rig head first into the slide and drop the blade, it sure beats rolling over. Crawlers are pretty stable all in all and even more so fore and aft.

I've had them up on one track, head down so I had to put one boot on the dash to stay in the seat, or uphill steep enough the only thing you could see over the hood was sky... Gotta love pioneering roads :D:D

R.S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rusty

I allways prefured clawing and scratching up hill over down hill because going up hill you will either go up or spin out and Chickening out was still an option where as down hill you were generaly commited :P:P:P:P:P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just thought I would throw this in here. Most of the roads in my parts of the world have to be done like this.

McCormick Deering in 1934 magazine adv.

post-546-1142643151_thumb.jpg

Note the fancy arms. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

to RustySledge, your emergency procedure of pivoting downhill when your crawler starts sliding downhill on loose fill on a steep hillside differs from mine. I've always had a 3 step procedure in mind for such occasions. STEP 1 lunge forward with both hands so that left hand disengages engine clutch & right hand dumps the bucket giving you a big heavy outrigger to stabilize crawler. STEP 2 if you have come to a stop, resume breathing, ( check pulse ) STEP 3 carefully exit crawler ,climb to safe location & survey situation , keep in mind any emergency room costs will far exceed the value of that dozer. for what its worth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Final Drive

The only thing I dissagree with is bucket should already be almost on ground and Don't get off to look cause you might decide not to get back on :P:P:P:P Don't recomend doing this but when we pushed cinders with a D-8 I have came down a 50' slope almost straight down by ceateing a land slide. I would push 2 blade fulls to edge then follow the third one down. If there are no large rocks a crawler will navagate a lot steeper slope than most of us care to It justs needs to be aimed straight down

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites