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BillOHIO

FARMALL F-40 PROJECT

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Guy Fay has interesting article on the Farmall F-40 project in current issue of Harvester Highlights. This was a tractor bigger than the F-30 that IH thought of bringing to market. They built a prototype in 1930 before abandoning it.

This would have been stepping stone to the Farmall "R" that we have talked about in early days of Forum.The "R" would have been a Farmall M design only bigger with the W-9 engine and a heavier rear end and components.This would have evolved into a Super-R, Super-RTA, Farmall 500, 550, Farmall 660, and eventually the Farmall 906.

Of course these ideas for a big Farmall existed only in our mind and discussions but until reading of the F-40 idea it is interesting to realize it was in the companys mind and fun to speculate the outcome if it had been introduced.

We came up with the "R" desingnation this way Farmall A,B,C (d-e-f-g) H (i-j-k-l) M (n-o-p-q) R (s-t-u-v) W-4, W-6,W-9. 4 letters between each model thus the Model-R following the Farmall-M.

It is easy to look back and speculate that this could have really put IH in a dominate postion with a big row crop tractor long before the other companys.The experience with higher horsepower tractors and effects on rear ends may have also averted the 4-560 problem.

Now this tractor would not have been big seller early on in SW Ohio but bet it would have become popular in Midwest, South and Southwest.

A proven Farmall-RD may have caused the introduction of the John Deere R Diesel to be an insignificant event.

There may have been a bigger market than everyone thought for the R as I personally remember some farmer built tandem hook-ups of tractors for more power as early as the 1940's.

I can just picture a Super-RTA Diesel pulling 5-14's and playing with a 2M-HD MOUNTED PICKER.

A Farmall 660 truly being the world's largest row crop tractor.

The 906, 1066 power in 1964.

And with all this additional success and profits an early introduction of a superior Cab with creature comforts and quietness that would be a first in the industry. The Operator-gard Cab.

So it almost happened. We can only speculate the results.May have changed history?

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That is what the problem was with IH, JD, and the others. What they thought would be too big was too small in some areas like were I farm (Montana).

What killed IH around here was the JD R through 830 series and later on the JD 5020. But they did sell alot of TD 14/18 series crawlers in the 50s. The only thing that saved IH was the 4100.

These kind of "what if" stories are interesting. The JD 3010/4010 were supposed to come out in 1958 but JD had to push the intro back 2 years. Just think much faster IH could have fallen behind with the intro of the JD 4010 during the 560 crisis.

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What killed IH around here was the JD R through 830 series and later on the JD 5020. But they did sell alot of TD 14/18 series crawlers in the 50s.  .

Good point! Even in our area we had some big farms using crawlers just to get more power. But they wanted rubber tires so these units could be moved on the road. We had a farmer near Troy who used all IH along with some D-2 and D-4 Cats. He farmed around 2000 acres which was huge in the late 40's and early 50's. He jumped on a new new John Deere R and within a few short years was farming with all John Deere equipment.

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I am old enough to remember when it was thought the 806 was almost too big for our area. And for sure upon hearing of the coming 1206 I even agreed that we would only see those in our area in pictures.

A few short years later everyone had big tractors,

My question is what changed? A younger group of farmers. Changing farming practices. The need to become more productive?

Probably a combination of the above?

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Bill,

Very good perspective on the article. When I read it I couldn't help but think, If only Harry Lee were a little younger. Most people know Harry as the owner of the Garrett Twin Drive 400 Diesel, and his 2 and 3 engined F series tractors. Harry has also reproduced a prototype Farmall Regular, and some others. Were harry younger with photo's in hand and his knack he would no doubt re create a F40 for us to enjoy. No it would not be original but neither is a SHTA, and still fun to look at and marvel.

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Bill,

Very good perspective on the article. When I read it I couldn't help but think, If only Harry Lee were a little younger. Most people know Harry as the owner of the Garrett Twin Drive 400 Diesel, and his 2 and 3 engined F series tractors. Hary has also reproduced a prototype Farmall Regular, and some others. Were harry younger with photo's in hand and his knack he would no doubt re create a F40 for us to enjoy. No it would not be original but neither is a SHTA, and still fun to look at and marvel.

Good Pat, According to article the prototype F-40 was built from 15-30 parts. So one of those and an F-30 and Harry could do it.There is a picture in Harvester Happenings so at least one was built. Probably scrapped. If not and it was still in good shape I bet someone would give big bucks for it.

Bill

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I am old enough to remember when it was thought the 806 was almost too big for our area. And for sure upon hearing of the coming 1206 I even agreed that we would only see those in our area in pictures.

A few short years later everyone had big tractors,

My question is what changed? A younger group of farmers. Changing farming practices. The need to become more productive?

Probably a combination of the above?

I can remember back in 1967 when I was still in HS we were looking to buy a new tractor. My uncle was looking at a 656 & a 4020, I was pushing for an 806 or at least a 706. Uncle said the 806 was too big, that we didn't have any fields that we could turn it around in :lol: . He ended up buying the 656 & a used 4x14 540 plow which to this day I have thought was a mistake. He could have bought a 4020D & a new 5X14 JD plow for less money & had a lot more tractor. That 656 was a gutless wonder, our 450 would pull circles around it. :(

When ever I think of that deal I have to chuckle. I can still remember we were in the IH dealer's show room when the JD dealer walked in to get some parts. My uncle hit him up right there in the IH dealer's showroom for a price on the 4020. :lol::lol:

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What killed IH around here was the JD R through 830 series and later on the JD 5020.   But they did sell alot of TD 14/18 series crawlers in the 50s.  .

Good point! Even in our area we had some big farms using crawlers just to get more power. But they wanted rubber tires so these units could be moved on the road. We had a farmer near Troy who used all IH along with some D-2 and D-4 Cats. He farmed around 2000 acres which was huge in the late 40's and early 50's. He jumped on a new new John Deere R and within a few short years was farming with all John Deere equipment.

Crawlers were very popular around here. The neighbors farmed with a Cat D7 and TD 18A up till the 70s when they bought a JD 6030. At one time during the 50s we farmed with a TD 14A, WD-9, and JD R. Then the WD-9 got traded for a IH 650, then a JD 830 and finally a JD 4020. The R was traded for a JD 5010 which later turned into a JD 5020. We kept the TD 14A for dirt moving and still use it occasionally.

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That would have been quite the tractor! Like Bill said, if a Farmall "RD" wouldhave been successful, it would have made the John Deere "R" rather insignificant, but to add to that, the Oliver 990 & 995 Lugmatics, along w/ the larger MM's, probably would not have had the success that they did have.

Just think, we might all be big fans of a red w/ white fendered "1406" instead!

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like an ididot, i let my membership expire here in chapter 5 and didnt renew it til a month ago so i doubt ill get the harvester highlights with the F-40. im young enough (28) and crazy enough (ask the wife) to attempt a project like this. id like some more info if i could get some!! :D

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I am old enough to remember when it was thought the 806 was almost too big for our area. And for sure upon hearing of the coming 1206 I even agreed that we would only see those in our area in pictures.

A few short years later everyone had big tractors,

My question is what changed? A younger group of farmers. Changing farming practices. The need to become more productive?

Probably a combination of the above?

I can remember back in 1967 when I was still in HS we were looking to buy a new tractor. My uncle was looking at a 656 & a 4020, I was pushing for an 806 or at least a 706. Uncle said the 806 was too big, that we didn't have any fields that we could turn it around in :lol: . He ended up buying the 656 & a used 4x14 540 plow which to this day I have thought was a mistake. He could have bought a 4020D & a new 5X14 JD plow for less money & had a lot more tractor. That 656 was a gutless wonder, our 450 would pull circles around it. :(

When ever I think of that deal I have to chuckle. I can still remember we were in the IH dealer's show room when the JD dealer walked in to get some parts. My uncle hit him up right there in the IH dealer's showroom for a price on the 4020. :lol::lol:

I recall dad looking at a near new 706 G on the Deere dealers lot, it was traded for a new 4020D. He bought a brand new 656 G instead. Never knew why he did not get the 706 instead. The 656's had JUST came out, it was late in 1965. Nevertheless, that was my first experience with the smell of brand new red paint. :D I was hooked forever.

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like an ididot, i let my membership expire here in chapter 5 and didnt renew it til a month ago so i doubt ill get the harvester highlights with the F-40. im young enough (28) and crazy enough (ask the wife) to attempt a project like this. id like some more info if i could get some!! :D

Old-F20,

Instant Message me your address and I will copy article and send it to you.

Bill

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Just think, we might all be big fans of a red w/ white fendered "1406" instead!

"1406" I love it!

Now you got me thinking of later tractor model numbers if IH had survived intact.

5488 becomes 6488, 7488, 8488,9488. & 9499?

7488 becomes 7499 then 8499, then 9499 and so on.

:D Bill

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The "next generation" IH's were going to be the 5188 and 5000. The 5000 I believe was the MAGNUM or as IH termed it the "New FARMALL".

Just bought an c-IH Engineering book on Ebay that is telling much more about the MAGNUM than had been known before. VERY interesting reading...

One neat picture shows the MAGNUM with a 2 DOOR cab..... :o

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Having had a brief exposure to the JD R I think it was insignificant anyhow, at least in Midwestern rowcrop areas. Dad had one for about 6 months in spring of '64. The Super M-TA would work rings around the R. The JD R only had two main bearings in the diesel engine so crankshaft breakage was common, the PTO was very weak. The Township Road Commissioner bought Dad's R to run a big rototiller to tear up scarified oiled roads and He knocked the PTO out of the old Girl three times in three years. A 770 Oliver diesel replaced it and ran the tiller with no problems for many years after the R was gone. The R had a very good selection of sub 5 mph fieldwork speeds in it's 5-speed transmission but the 11 mph road gear meant You would be sociably late to ANY field more than a half mile from Your farm. We plowed about half the time that spring with an IH #8 3-14 plow with the R. The 4-14 JD plow We loaned to the neighbor and after the R went to it's new home I even plowed a day with it behind the SM-TA. R was fuel efficient, hard to push more than 2 gal. of cheap diesel fuel thru it an hour but once You got it started with the 2-cyl. Pony engine You kept it running ALL day... The little 2-cyl. pony had all it wanted to start the diesel when it was cold. It was big and awkward compared to the 450 that replaced it the next year but the 450 would do much more work... while burning about twice the gas. But gas was still cheap. The neighbor's new 4020 gas was burning 7 gal. per hour pulling 5-14's and the 450 was burning 4 to 5 gph pulling 4-14's. The later JD 2-cyl. diesels fixed most of the problems the R suffered from. Neighbor had a pony-start 730-D WFE and He tried for MANY years to tear that tractor up without success.

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makes a person wonder "what if" .i thought the first gen M was the nail in the coffin for the poppin jhonnys .deere did stay with the 2 cyl a long time .i was not alive in those days ,but when you look at a 77-88 oliver it makes me wonder why they did not have the #1 sales in the 40-50's .

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We have a "1406" we repowered an 806 with at dt-407!!!

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makes a person wonder "what if" .i thought the first gen M was the nail in the coffin for the poppin jhonnys .deere did stay with the 2 cyl a long time .i was not alive in those days ,but when you look at a 77-88 oliver it makes me wonder why they did not have the #1 sales in the 40-50's .

They didnt have the dealer net work that IH or JD had, even if you have the best tractor you cant sell them with out a good dealer net work.

Jeremy

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We have a "1406" we repowered an 806 with at dt-407!!!

Yeah, that's about as close to the "real" thing as you're gonna get.

The ultimate "2+2"... A 8888!

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tommyw - re>>but when you look at a 77-88 oliver it makes me wonder why they did not have the #1 sales in the 40-50's<<

Prolly network of dealers, I'd guess. We saw stuff like ours, F-20's, M's. in about every field, a lotta Poppin Johnnies also. Some Allis'es, some Fords. Very few M-M's or Case's, the Olivers and Massey-Harris'es almost never saw one.

best, randy

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makes a person wonder "what if" .i thought the first gen M was the nail in the coffin for the poppin jhonnys .deere did stay with the 2 cyl a long time .i was not alive in those days ,but when you look at a 77-88 oliver it makes me wonder why they did not have the #1 sales in the 40-50's .

I have wonder the same thing why the 77 and 88 's where not bigger , had to be marketing . The CO-OP and Cockshett independent PTO Should have been right up there to . Must have been marketing.

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One neat picture shows the MAGNUM with a 2 DOOR cab..... :o

I really hate it when you tease like that, saving the picture for a new book maybe?

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One neat picture shows the MAGNUM with a 2 DOOR cab..... :o

I really hate it when you tease like that, saving the picture for a new book maybe?

No new book plans for the next year or two/three for me. There are several books in the works right now from others including:

An "official" history of IH trucks being made by International Truck & Engines Advertising agency.

IH Payline book

IH "F Series" Tractor Originality guide.

IH Tractor Serial number data book.

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tommyw - re>>but when you look at a 77-88 oliver it makes me wonder why they did not have the #1 sales in the 40-50's<<

Prolly network of dealers, I'd guess.  We saw stuff like ours, F-20's, M's. in about every field, a lotta Poppin Johnnies also.  Some Allis'es, some Fords. Very few M-M's or Case's, the Olivers and Massey-Harris'es almost never saw one.

best, randy

Here in Hillsdale Co., Michigan in the '40's after WWII was over the Farming boom kinda got under way. There were 5 IH dealers in the county, all apparently surviving from plenty of sales and plenty of stuff to sell. There were only 2 John Deere dealers, but they did good too and there were a lot of Johnny Poppers with those faithful disgustingly loyal owners around. Allis-Chalmers had a good dealer at the county seat and those WC's and WD's were very popular. There were quite a few Fords, most were sold by the auto dealers I think the ag dealers were car dealers too. Fergie, Case, and Massey and even MM had one dealer too and you saw a few of each of those. Oliver...ah yes....Oliver, there were 2 dealers and a few Ollies too but they were considered kinda odd...sorta like Co-ops and Monkey Wards. Now Oliver plows were common and respected. But for whatever reasons nobody ever praised or ran down Oliver tractors like they did the common brands. They were just around...okay....whatever. Few 60's, 70's and then the new 88's when they came out...okay so what??? See what I mean?? Quiet, low-key, conservative people had Olivers...No problem.

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