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Pete1468

Programmer for c15

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C16 600 hp.... fun..... yep.

We just built a beautiful C16 Kenworth glider for a local heavy haul outfit. I have pics but can't share them yet, customer hasn't taken delivery. Believe they said truck and trailer are going to be 76,000 empty.

I want to clarify the "heavy haul kit" liner scoring. What happens is without adequate engine loads, carbon builds up under the rings. They then cannot retract back into the ring lands in the piston, therefore causing excessive ring to liner drag, making more heat. This cooks the carbon harder and harder and the carbon build up forms faster and faster. We had some serious early C13 failures back in the day due to this. A good driver, doing exactly what seems like the proper thing to do.... not beat on it, actually makes the problem worse. That's why Cat doesn't put these rings in a normal truck engine. In a full load genset, a heavy haul truck, or something like a dozer, it's the best ring for the job.

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I have piloted a truck a mile or maybe two in my life , I get a real laugh out of some of the numbers being tossed around here 800,900 someone gotta have a 1000hp somewhere on here.:blink: Almost as funny as an oil thread.

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1 hour ago, CDN 400 said:

I have piloted a truck a mile or maybe two in my life , I get a real laugh out of some of the numbers being tossed around here 800,900 someone gotta have a 1000hp somewhere on here.:blink: Almost as funny as an oil thread.

My thoughts also. I know they can make power but to last is another thing. My truck sales relative has a son that drove over the road . He had a Pete 378 he started with 3406 pec engine then went to a 99 or around there c16 auto shift then bought a new w900 when emissions were talked about but went back to c15 and 18 speed. He took his. C16 to Denver a couple times to have it reflashed by a guru there. He always told me not much hp gains you couldn't tell but he could get up to 6.25. On mileage instead of 5 cross country flatbed work with the flash. So at 2000 a flash he figured fuel mileage would pay for it quick. His dad has sold at least a 1000 semis off all types they tell me the Detroit is nothing to sneeze at for power. But every truck they get in needs at least some type of engine work. The heavy haul trucks he has are usually freight liners or Kws . Big frames ,big rears big driveshafts to handle power. He would get some Pete's in. That we're older 379,359s most of those ran the 38,000 rears he had more than a few housings welded or changed.

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To all the "experts"   I DONT CARE one way or the other what you figure I'm saying is right or wrong or " I know a guy in timbukto that has a brother and a laptop that will put a suspicious tune in it from India or whatever.    

 

What I DO know is all the trucks I have had personally, the trucks my buddy that was here when I typed my response earlier and we discussed it. 

I run 14 liter Detroits  that a bunch of "big guys" with "big Cats" WONT go around in the hills.  PLUS burns less fuel (exactly why big fleets are Detroit power) 

My 3406 2WS Cat in my 1999 Pete was a 550 hp when I bought it and it was  a LAZY POS !!! Drank fuel like crazy too.   Fast forward I drove it a yr, overhauled it during downtime in my own shop.   Got a C18 camshaft, 525 Cummins redtop turbo (you have to flip exhaust manifold upside down) C18 injectors (yes they are bigger than 6NZ and C15 and still fit the head because its still the same) and put a tune in it .   Truck had 725hp to the ground on the dyno in Grand Island Ne   I drove this truck for 2 more yrs and it was and still is one of the quickest truck I have ever driven.  PLUS went from drinking 84 gallons a day average pulling the same trailer on the same roads hauling the same loads down to 68 gallons a day average.  I sold this truck to a guy with a BIG checkbook and wanted it really bad and paid a bunch for it so I let it go.  

Next truck was a 14L pre emission series 60 Detroit I bought as a crate engine factory set at 575 hp  was pretty strong but not as tough as my little Pete ...... when warranty ran out I had it tuned up to 600hp / 2050 torque .... ran GREAT because fuel maps and timing tables were then adjusted to take out the "laziness" that is tuned into a Detroit from factory.   (this is why big fleets run them, anyone can drive them and not tear clutches and drivelines out)  This was a 379 EXHD same  as my other one with Cat. It averaged 57 gallons a day same trailer same roads same loads.  Because it was a 1997 it became very valuable due to ELD mandate and it left me after a VERY big check was written.

NOW I bought 5 2009 Freightliner  Columbias with 14L Detroits in them .   I deleted all the emissions crap and tuned them to 600hp 2050 torque These trucks have had a BEST day of 47 gallons but all in average is 52 gallons a day AND will still run away from most everything up hill. No they arent as quick as my Pete with the Cat but what I pay at the pump says I'm fine with that.

My buddy who I was talking to while replying before is the only truck I have went up hills with that could go around me.  Accert twin turbo cat with C18 cam big injectors AND JUST trim codes and numbers in it no "big tune"    He loves Cats and does know how to get allot out of them without a "big tune" BUT has had several trucks with 600 all the way up to 825 hp.   His trucks all run very good after he messes with them and someone always seems to want them so he sells them for big money and goes on to another.

 

Again ....... if you want something to run very strong without much fuss I have a laptop and my buddy would come look at codes and see what should be changed ..... if not .... fine by me.  After all there is an "expert" up above that has all the answers and might report to the feds or whatever he was getting at.   

Its no wonder I dont even like to post on here anymore 

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There's very little difference between a c16 and a c15. Any 15 block could be built to a 16

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I got a stock c15 550 hp in my 9900. 18 sod. It pulls the mountains strongly at 80k and runs as well as any truck on the road. Cat dealer told me they are desigNed for optimum running. Tune it too much and problems. I wanted more out of it but backed off when priced a remain turbo at $3500.

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2 hours ago, CDN 400 said:

I have piloted a truck a mile or maybe two in my life , I get a real laugh out of some of the numbers being tossed around here 800,900 someone gotta have a 1000hp somewhere on here.:blink: Almost as funny as an oil thread.

My dad can say the same about miles. Done it his whole life without a wreck but when it comes to hp he's clueless. His truck runs good because I set it up. Getting 800, 900, and even 1k horse out of a 3406 isn't hard to get. The hard part is not burning it up. 

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9 minutes ago, edwardporter1 said:

I got a stock c15 550 hp in my 9900. 18 sod. It pulls the mountains strongly at 80k and runs as well as any truck on the road. Cat dealer told me they are desigNed for optimum running. Tune it too much and problems. I wanted more out of it but backed off when priced a remain turbo at $3500.

Cat turbos are WAY over priced and little!!  Keep air going thru that engine and it helps keep them cool.   Red top Cummins turbo is 700 bux LOL and its a Holset 

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Mater is right on cat turbos. Can get better turbos for cheaper. 

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For what you do and your driving your truck you could get it tuned pretty hot and be safe what are you running for fuel psi

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Ok here we go ................................ 3500 for a genuine Cat turbo.    900 for a Holset!!!! soooooooooooooooooooooooooo where you going with that? AND I like Borg Warner 171702 on my Detroits $826 delivered!!! So the stupidity I am saying is Cat wants too much for their parts that are inferior ...... 900 for a Holset or a smidge less for a Borg Warner .... pick your poison BUT neither go straight on without a couple mods which t me are no big deal to handle.  Oh BTW Pitts Power sell the Borg Warner for 2400!!!!!! try again man .... ALL them companies are ripping you off

49 minutes ago, dale560 said:

This says a lot from 2010

image.png

 

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This is another interesting read on injector sizes and what will work. The post from Faulkner gives sizes and what works . This just gives you an idea what is out on the Internet and if it works or not. Just to be clear on the turbo article I think the writer is with pdi so they would be competing with ppi. The best hp trick would be injectors out of a cat 865 tractor the c18 or marine c15 cam and enough water in a tanker behind to keep it cool.

image.png

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Haney isn't with pdi. He has a lot of wisdom on high hp cats

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I don't think I'll be changing the turbos, the twins have 100,000 miles on them.

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Love the debate on the big cats, since I now have one.   Mine is flashed to 500 as said with factory cat flash, but I still need to run overhead and I have a harness issue with AIV soloniod wiring.   When I get that fixed and overhead I will then have a clue as to how well it runs.  It shows signs of real power on light throttle but derates because of harness issue, still pulls ok but EGTs never get above 700 and have to shift on big hills with a load.  Also have to get boost guage installed to tell what is going on, using the air filter vacumm gauge as a "boost" guage since the under hood donaldson filter has some restriction even after new one was installed so I can watch that guage pull up when boosting.   

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11 hours ago, Tmtbob said:

Haney isn't with pdi. He has a lot of wisdom on high hp cats

One of the posts on another site said he was with pdi but they could have been wrong.He definitely knows what works and what doesn't  posts on a few different sites. Myself I don't care what hp you run 325 gets us to town and back. Just a lot of reading out there. For what one person claims is 300 hp add on next guy has run it and found that it actually decreased hp. If you have a whole day read all pp articles on a 855 n14. Almost every truck on the road should be running 1200 hp pushing 110 mph climbing the Rockies.

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Killer, I sent you a PM.

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On 12/31/2017 at 12:54 PM, CDN 400 said:

I have piloted a truck a mile or maybe two in my life , I get a real laugh out of some of the numbers being tossed around here 800,900 someone gotta have a 1000hp somewhere on here.:blink: Almost as funny as an oil thread.

They do exsist , I wish it was mine.

 

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Friday it's going to Ziegler for the laptop and a dyno, that way I can get a starting point.

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Smart move, without a base line for anything everything is a guess.  Keep us informed of progress.

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Keep us updated what you do . Not knocking anybody's power claims. And I am no professional expert on them so that I can tell you what 5 digit part number gives you big power. The one thing I have run across though is as you go up in horsepower a little the longevity comes out of any brand motor cat cummins Detroit. If you go say from 500 to 650 hp on a c15 that is where a lot of the weakness of block,main cap holding ability, crankshaft strength and the one thing that all big engines do is start to walk the sleeve around a little wearing the sleeve flange and block. This happens on any brand also.I bet if you bought any big block truck cat cummins Detroit at highest factory hp setting for all. And one person ran truck for a million miles only 50 % of the trucks would make it without major engine work. To further try to explain this lets buy 6 trucks all 2003 pre emission new. 2 with cat, 2 with cummins , 2 with Detroit . Same person run all 6 to a million miles to make it absolutely fair. One of each of those makes won't make a million without catastrophic engine damage. Injector tip coming off, turbo impeller goi g through, valve dropping out of head, or just plain cam lobe failure. And to go one step further each truck should be same make model and had only dealer service tuneup and oil changes.  That's why I always wonder how long they last at high power. Seen enough of them blown up at low power to make you wonder.  If you have a day just google making any engine high hp. Just for example  There are pages of threads like this.(where got a 900 hp engine and the dang mechanic screwed it up after putting a head gasket in. The head gasket blew after I got a call about dad having a heart attack and had to have a police escort across three states at 95,000 lbs and 110 mph rolled into Pennsylvania and truck was hot.Then mechanic overhauled it and wouldn't last so being I was such a super trucker I picked out the parts and had truck fixed now it runs forever and is at 1100 hp) this is actual thread from years ago I read on the diesel garage forum and one of the replies was why didn't you just stop and rent a car. I would leave your truck at what cat sets it at. just to keep it easy on your checkbook.

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I'm a firm believer in an engine is only good for so many gallons of fuel, if you put it in a little at a time or a lot at a time only so many gallons.

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On 1/1/2018 at 7:33 AM, red211 said:

Love the debate on the big cats, since I now have one.   Mine is flashed to 500 as said with factory cat flash, but I still need to run overhead and I have a harness issue with AIV soloniod wiring.   When I get that fixed and overhead I will then have a clue as to how well it runs.  It shows signs of real power on light throttle but derates because of harness issue, still pulls ok but EGTs never get above 700 and have to shift on big hills with a load.  Also have to get boost guage installed to tell what is going on, using the air filter vacumm gauge as a "boost" guage since the under hood donaldson filter has some restriction even after new one was installed so I can watch that guage pull up when boosting.   

Look behind the air compressor for harness rubbing , My Cat 3406E had 5 wires worn through and shorting out. Kept throwing codes spent mucho deniro going to cat dealer which kept changing out sensors cause the computer says. then im the one to find issue and  fix it.:angry:

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It's never thrown a code.

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