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Pete1468

Programmer for c15

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Anyone have or know someone that has had a programmer on a c15 cat.  The one I have has absolutely no lug to it at all.  It's set at 500 supposedly but if you see a hill the first thing you do is shift, I've had a shop look at it and they said everything is good with it.  Even running and empty refer trailer you shift on hills.

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Put an actual tune in the ECM not a programmer on it.   Every programmer Ive seen has been too much timing and too much fuel which DOES make it run HARD BUT will make LOTS of heat till the head is junk.   PM me if you want a couple numbers to try for a tune.  I have friends that tune trucks.. PDI tunes also have a strong timing and fuel map   run hard just not long.  Pittsburgh Power ..... same way.  I like tuner guys that give you reliable power and torque not just put a smile on your face the first time you crack the throttle after they have your money and say "sorry bout your engine but you knew it was a performance tune"

 

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I don't want to go crazy, just a truck that doesn't turn tail and run.

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16 minutes ago, Pete1468 said:

I don't want to go crazy, just a truck that doesn't turn tail and run.

A lot of guys go to tuned ecms but if you have a 475 c15 it should run hard stock.i would take it in to cat or a cat truck shop first and find the problem. I would almost gaurentee a cracked intercooler or some other problem like boost pressure leaking. We had a 3406 c mechanical in a Pete set at 475 I sold you just kept stepping on the throttle instead of shifting. I just hated the way you sit in a Pete reason I sold it. People talk about low fuel pressure to and running a better filter to help with some low power complaints also on those cats so could be any kind of problem.

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I've thought about going to Ziegler in Sioux city and running it on the dyno.  It will reach up to 50 psi boost on a long hard pull.

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2 minutes ago, Pete1468 said:

I've thought about going to Ziegler in Sioux city and running it on the dyno.  It will reach up to 50 psi boost on a long hard pull.

Seems like boost is good. just from what I have been around those cats . They will pull like Heck. Most of the guys I ever heard of running tuner was to try and get better mileage. They claim you could get almost 1 mpg better. You should be able to pull out and pass anything on the road at 80,000 with that truck.

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It's got tall gears but dad's old 60 series Detroit @475 would out lug it has ands down.

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29 minutes ago, Pete1468 said:

It's got tall gears but dad's old 60 series Detroit @475 would out lug it has ands down.

That is one thing you hear a Detroit will  run with them. We have a 325 economy 3406b in a ford ln9000 and a n14 in the 96 ford we bought.  That old Pete I sold would run circles around both these trucks the n14 is 385 hp and geared to run 65 at 1600 we shift a little with that one but hauling grain and hay we get by fine with them. I know big Detroit power in the freightliners is really sought after.

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We pull 170 000 gross with a C15 turned to 550 in a western star and have no issues with power, only thing you have to watch is the temp gauge on the hills. It will get to 215-220 on a long haul, we usually manually switch the fan on instead of waiting for it to come in on the temp sender. 

 

Id dyno and see what it's really doing, big Cat like that should pull hard.

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2 hours ago, Pete1468 said:

I don't want to go crazy, just a truck that doesn't turn tail and run.

Come  get my tired 3406e see if it will do the trick

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Darin I want this truck to last a while, I don't need 900 Hp.

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Most tuners are out of country for various "reasons" HOWEVER I have the laptop and datalink  ......... make a call and they are in the ECM checking it out.    I'm sitting here with my buddy that loves Cats and we are talking about this.     Could go in there and change fuel numbers , trim codes and injectors and you will have a VERY stout puller.  There is another step that would really wake up the torque ...... camshaft     This is all done without a BIG tune and you wont need to worry about burning it down

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I could make a trip to west point and visit a relative.

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I would bet you have a 1650 ft lb program in it, and that may be all your driveline is rated for. Lots of ex fleet trucks out there spec'd that way. Depending on engine arrangement there will be a 1850 and possibly a 2050 available, keep in mind torque families sometimes require iron changes.

Best bet is to head over to Ziegler. I don't know the SOUX guys that well, but if they don't have the answers, someone in Altoona or Mpls will and they're only a phone call away.

And I will say it again, all the aftermarket tuners and performance parts eventually become headaches. Put a Pittsburgh tuner or illegal flash in the ECM then have a small problem out on the road, and the dealer may turn you away at the door. I might have a few local customers that use the above that we work on, but if some guy comes in off the road and admits they are running aftermarket tuning, I have to tell them to move on, big legal fines could otherwise result.

And if you do run an aftermarket tuner, be sure you tell your shop. First thing we do on every truck - even for an oil change, is take a download off your ECM, which is sent to Cat, and they will report you to the EPA.

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I just keep feeling nicer and nicer about my 3406C mechanical 350.

Ron

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19 minutes ago, Ron Cook said:

I just keep feeling nicer and nicer about my 3406C mechanical 350.

Ron

I feel the same way about my 3406B 4 & 1/4.

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There's no way a 60 series Detroit will run with a 500hp+ cat that's running right. Pound for pound they don't have enough go to get there. And they'll drink more fuel trying to keep up. For fleets that don't run heavy loads all day that's the way to go but put it on a load of cattle and before long the Detroit won't be in radio range anymore.

I'd stay away from the trim codes and leave them stock. Changing fls and fts is a better way to go than trim codes. Cat tech has a lot of good advice and maybe have a dealer check your program out but if you find someone that has a laptop and knows what he's doing I'd go there instead. 

If you ever get down to northern Oklahoma I have access to a laptop that can do what dealers can. 

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Pete ours is same way c-15 set at 550 that feels like 250 

3406e blows it away big time set at factory 475

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In the cases where everything is working right and still doggy with a C15..... Good chance somebody has been in playing around with numbers and trying to hot rod these electronic engines that didn't have the resources or knowledge to be doing so. We see it ALL the time.

FLS = full load stop

FTS = full torque stop

Back in the mechanical days these numbers were physical adjustments to the rack bar (fuel pump control) stop screws. They were measured in millimeters. FLS set the HP at rated RPM, FTS set the max torque when engine was pulled below rated RPM. The bigger the number, the more power.

In the world of electronics, these numbers don't mean squat. Cat gives you the F numbers for the flash file and HP,  you put them in. Go up a number or two thinking more power.... and Cat's software says I'll show you and cuts power off. Can more power be made, sure.... better have a chassis dyno and a day to mess around. Will Cat give you better F numbers? Sure, if you have a chassis dyno and can prove you are low on power.... anyways.

Sorry if I'm ranting a bit. I get 10 phone calls a week with people gripping about how their truck runs like crap, then after a 1/2 hour on the phone trying to help them diagnose the problem they tell me they had a "buddy with a computer" who "turned it up a bit". I'm glad Cat put some field adjustability into the electronics, but I kinda wish they would have added an expensive death mode..... mess around where your not supposed to and suddenly the ecm is fried.

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I bought this truck in April last year from a trailer sales place in Sioux Falls.  I know I've never done anything with it.  I had called Ziegler a month ago and he said he'd put it on the laptop for me, I think I'll do that next week first.

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19 minutes ago, Cattech said:

In the cases where everything is working right and still doggy with a C15..... Good chance somebody has been in playing around with numbers and trying to hot rod these electronic engines that didn't have the resources or knowledge to be doing so. We see it ALL the time.

FLS = full load stop

FTS = full torque stop

Back in the mechanical days these numbers were physical adjustments to the rack bar (fuel pump control) stop screws. They were measured in millimeters. FLS set the HP at rated RPM, FTS set the max torque when engine was pulled below rated RPM. The bigger the number, the more power.

In the world of electronics, these numbers don't mean squat. Cat gives you the F numbers for the flash file and HP,  you put them in. Go up a number or two thinking more power.... and Cat's software says I'll show you and cuts power off. Can more power be made, sure.... better have a chassis dyno and a day to mess around. Will Cat give you better F numbers? Sure, if you have a chassis dyno and can prove you are low on power.... anyways.

Sorry if I'm ranting a bit. I get 10 phone calls a week with people gripping about how their truck runs like crap, then after a 1/2 hour on the phone trying to help them diagnose the problem they tell me they had a "buddy with a computer" who "turned it up a bit". I'm glad Cat put some field adjustability into the electronics, but I kinda wish they would have added an expensive death mode..... mess around where your not supposed to and suddenly the ecm is fried.

That is the best advice I have ever seen on cat engines and hp. Most people that have a tune in them don't know if they actually went up or down on hp. A big difference in trucks being able to use the power . I know my truck sales buddy was getting kenworth heavy spec trucks for oil field use . They had cat big hp engines in but same year kW to peterbilt fleet truck with same engine but light truck was 30,000 price difference used.  This was for 2002 ,3 kW 900s  farmers and light use people would ask him about them. First thing he said is they are expensive because they were built right. He would then show people the light duty trucks he had to save money.   

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And "heavy haul" !!!

Whoa ho ho..... more power!!!

NOPE!

Heavy haul is a survivability package for engines frequently running near max output. You need to have the proper pistons and rings and other supporting iron to run the software that goes in the ECM. The software does more to protect the engine during long high output pulls. The piston rings are made to seal with higher cylinder pressures, but at the cost of being more easily carbon packed. You put a heavy haul kit in an engine and then run around at 75k all the time, you will end up with scored liners in no time flat.

Long story short....Be honest with yourself and supporting dealer on what the truck is going to do.

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An experienced driver that understands how engines work would prevent scoring liners in high output engines. I'm probably well over 800hp in a 5ek and never scored one. Had a built 6ts before with the same results 

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Talked to a heavy hauler the other day while I was waiting to load.  He had an older Pete that was set up right.  Older man ordered it and had it parked when He died suddenly.  Wife found title 5 years later, didn't even know about it.  Finally found it but storage charge was high so she just turned it over to them and then they sold it.  Driver stumbled on it and took company owner the next day to buy it.  20,000/48,000, 18 speed with 2 speed axle.  C16 at 550, took it to dealer and had hoses and stuff replaced and tuned.  Mech said give it to me for a few days and let Me  play with it.  Got it back and it's close to 800, said it's like driving a pu.  Just keeps an eye on egt when pulling hard but said there is no quit in it.  Owner escorted Him on first load, D8 cat.  On a big hill South of Nashville He passed a truck and at the top phone rings, owner said "what are you doing".  Topped the hill at 78 and never really got on it any.  Must be a fun truck to drive for sure.  

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I wouldn't have been afraid of a c16 but they're hard to come by.

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