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seant

Sleeve and block damage

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Hey guys some questions for those of you who may have seen or run into this. I had all cracked sleeves on my 450D (i assume starting fluid use as the culprit) so i pulled them all and as i expected there was a mark on the block everywhere the sleeves were cracked, most are so minor you cant even catch with a finger nail and appear to be more discoloration then an actual mark. Those actually appeared to come out with some light scotch bright and oil. There is one however that you can just barely catch with your finger nail, and 1 that is even more significant. The worst one was where the sleeve cracked in a U and created a "tongue" so to speak that was relatively free to travel in and out horizontally with pressure change in the bore. The ridge left is roughly .002-.003 (Ill get a hold of a dial bore gauge and check for sure). I know the "right way" is the hard way and requires pulling the motor and having it bored and use a custom sleeve replacement or a repair sleeve and a stock sleeve. But for those of you that have seen this can you scotch bright/emery the ridge out and get away with putting in new sleeves? I would assume if you just left it as it is, it would really mess with the heat transfer as well as create a pressure ridge along the sleeve leading to cracking again, so i figured if you at least smoothed it out it would probably hold. I think the motor was ran with cracked sleeves for quite a while considering the blow by the previous owner described and with what i witnessed before tearing into it. Its not a high HP motor nor is it throwing on a 4 or 5 bottom plow going all day, but it does do a fair bit of cutting, raking and once in a while baling. I also have thought of a cracked block, i have talked to a few other gas start engine owners and they have run into the same problem and when looked at by a machinist it was not cracked. I never had any oil water mixing either so i think (hoping) i'm safe. Thanks in advance. 

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Myself I think you would be fine.  They are pretty simple engine. At worst case in a year or two might have a cracked sleeve again. In my opinion I would go about it like you are thinking 

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Very true danny, I guess worst like you said you'd be out another sleeve. Makes me really wonder how many rigs out there are running with cracked sleeves... for a while

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You could always contact a local machine shop and borrow there magneflux tool.  Then you would know for sure and how far it goes.  We have had ours come out to the house before for a small charge to check the very same thing.

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460, 

Can they check the depth (if its in the water jacket) or just how far around the hole it goes? Thanks!

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It will only confirm a surface crack.  Pressurizing the cooling system would confirm if it's into water.  But in some cases this can be inconclusive as some newer more elaborate pressure testers actually use hot water to simulate actual running engine tempetures.

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Have you tried filling the block with 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water and then watch to see if the crack get wet.  Antifreeze is very thin and will seep through the crack, just give it a little time.  Another thing that you could do is once the block is full of antifreeze is take a air hose a blow high pressure air at the crack and watch the antifreeze for bubbles at the water ports at the top of the block.  Keep us posted.

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All good suggestions thank you, the head is off and sleeves out of course so ill give the antifreeze trick a shot...makes sense Duh.. should have thought of that. I will let you all know. On a side note i think i located some 4.125 sleeve piston kits for around 1675 shipped and insured if anyone's looking( 4.25 parent bore). I have been pricing (and still am in the process) my own kits to see what i could scrounge together for guys probably in the hundreds of hours hunting parts thus far. Thanks again all!

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If you do not have a crack in the block, but think you have some wear gaps under the broken pieces, LOCK TIGHT makes a sleeve backer product.

 

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If the block is good, find a set of 4.25 pistons and slip them in without the sleeves.  I've got a Super M set up that way with 1 inch M&W stroker crank and Denny's carb shop governor and it runs like a dream at 85 HP.  Used to pull it but not for over 10 years.  Have plowed with it and does odd jobs around here and doesn't get hot, so I'm leaving it that way.

jerry

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