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Dow passed 24,000

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21 minutes ago, supermpuller said:

Not political just facts. When Obama took office, 1/20/09 the DJIA was 7,949.09, lowest for the Dow since its creation. At the end of Obama term 1/20/17 it more that doubled to 19,732.40 also bailed out wallstreet and saved auto companies

Keep dreaming.

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27 minutes ago, Brady Boy said:

Keep dreaming.

When one gives credit or blame to a particular politician or party, it's political. That static means zip.  Where was the market before the crash?  The passing of time and fear, had more to do with the recovery of the market/economy.  US/world economy has many more aspects influencing it than whether the US President has an R or a D behind his name.  So what policies did he enact that made a difference?  BK

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4 hours ago, supermpuller said:

Not political just facts. When Obama took office, 1/20/09 the DJIA was 7,949.09, lowest for the Dow since its creation. At the end of Obama term 1/20/17 it more that doubled to 19,732.40 also bailed out wallstreet and saved auto companies

You cant be serious.  Please post some respected econimist who can point to obama admin policies that grew confidence and encouraged biz to invest ans grow.  The B of the last 7 years has been large cap co had billions in accts doing nothing b/c of uncertainty in rhe admins direction.  Greenspan and his dinks with Clinton era give away money to those with out means to pay got it where it was.  He came in at a horrible low so going up was a no brainer.  With the current admin we have seen 2 to 7% qrt to qrt (iirc) growth vs last i years of 1 and 2ish% qtt to qrt.

But going on your comment you did greatly compliment the Bush admin since his admin must be responsible for all the growth under Obama.  Bush wasnt my fav but man you sure shined on his success. 

Jerry, why would non union co pay into a union fund?  Or do you mean other union trucking firms didn't pay and UPS did?  Confused there....

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34 minutes ago, TroyDairy said:

You cant be serious.  Please post some respected econimist who can point to obama admin policies that grew confidence and encouraged biz to invest ans grow.  The B of the last 7 years has been large cap co had billions in accts doing nothing b/c of uncertainty in rhe admins direction.  Greenspan and his dinks with Clinton era give away money to those with out means to pay got it where it was.  He came in at a horrible low so going up was a no brainer.  With the current admin we have seen 2 to 7% qrt to qrt (iirc) growth vs last i years of 1 and 2ish% qtt to qrt.

But going on your comment you did greatly compliment the Bush admin since his admin must be responsible for all the growth under Obama.  Bush wasnt my fav but man you sure shined on his success. 

Jerry, why would non union co pay into a union fund?  Or do you mean other union trucking firms didn't pay and UPS did?  Confused there....

Only union company pay in some such as Yellow-Roadway have made their employees take concessions with the promise they would get the company turned around and in the black again so some drivers out there basically have no pension to look forward to much like when CF closed doors quickly one day. 

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Ok makes sense.  I was always taught never ever ever assume someone else will take care of you.  Lots of union guys locally who took early draw from big alum smelter 10 years ago.  Almost everyone will be working to death.  The model of gravey job so they all have 0 skills and the fantasy of living large faded quick after the 08 collapse.  They seriously had no other plans, it was head shaking that these guys had the highest paying jobs in the area and now few lost homes, work night security for malls etc now.  But they had nice toys....

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1 hour ago, Ian Beale said:

A big IF,  If Trump would stay off twitter and keep his mouth shut 99% of the time his ratings would soar. Don't get me wrong I like what the guy has down to drain the swamp I just hope he has plenty of time so he can get it 100% drained and capped and  bury those scum bags at the EPA, IRS, FBI, CIA. ?? just for starters.

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8 hours ago, jass1660 said:

It’s not UPS fault it’s the other trucking companies that didn’t contribute or went under. Plus people are living longer and collecting more and if not managed properly will default. Mine is funded at 90% right now. 

We are on the same path, but at 87%.  The baby boomers are drawing on the money they put in but they are living longer to draw more than it was expected, then the number of current contributions are lower than expected.  A lot of people always wanted thier raise to be on the check and not into thier benefits to keep up with the cost of living.  Those factors and more are really affecting the finding levels of pensions

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1 hour ago, 806 man said:

A big IF,  If Trump would stay off twitter and keep his mouth shut 99% of the time his ratings would soar. Don't get me wrong I like what the guy has down to drain the swamp I just hope he has plenty of time so he can get it 100% drained and capped and  bury those scum bags at the EPA, IRS, FBI, CIA. ?? just for starters.

Course these are the same polls who said he did not have a snowballs chance in heck of winning the presidency...

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12 hours ago, jass1660 said:

Only union company pay in some such as Yellow-Roadway have made their employees take concessions with the promise they would get the company turned around and in the black again so some drivers out there basically have no pension to look forward to much like when CF closed doors quickly one day. 

Jerry, Holland is in the same boat as YRC. I know UPS pulled out of the Central States pension fund when I was still working over ten years ago.  IIRC they paid a huge lump sum to get out. Did they also get out of the other regions pension funds?

I worked for Preston and then Holland after YRC bled Preston to death. Took a pay cut to keep Preston going but I think when they bought Preston they already knew the were going to liquidate it because three years later Preston was history. Lost $300.00 a month on my pension because of reduced payments to pension fund. Now they are trying to take more away. Mismanagement is an understatement. At a meeting on this the rep from Central States blamed it on the poor economy. If the economy was the cause according to the rep and the previous administration said they improved the economy some body or both are lieing.  Troy is right in saying take care of yourself because nobody else will.  If it wasn't for my 401K I would be working security at the mall. 

Rant over.

Dennis

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3 hours ago, jingles1928 said:

Jerry, Holland is in the same boat as YRC. I know UPS pulled out of the Central States pension fund when I was still working over ten years ago.  IIRC they paid a huge lump sum to get out. Did they also get out of the other regions pension funds?

I worked for Preston and then Holland after YRC bled Preston to death. Took a pay cut to keep Preston going but I think when they bought Preston they already knew the were going to liquidate it because three years later Preston was history. Lost $300.00 a month on my pension because of reduced payments to pension fund. Now they are trying to take more away. Mismanagement is an understatement. At a meeting on this the rep from Central States blamed it on the poor economy. If the economy was the cause according to the rep and the previous administration said they improved the economy some body or both are lieing.  Troy is right in saying take care of yourself because nobody else will.  If it wasn't for my 401K I would be working security at the mall. 

Rant over.

Dennis

Some UPS locals are still in Central States, mine is out on its own I’m in 710 teamsters. Others pulled out as well. Jerry 

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And I sold out of the market at 19,100.  Dang.

Oh, well.  It could just as easily have gone the other way.  And will again, some day.

 

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1 minute ago, mrblanche said:

 

Oh, well.  It could just as easily have gone the other way.  And will again, some day.

 

Very much so, what goes up comes down. There will be a correction

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Have any of you considered that the economy is doing so well because over the last eight years it has been well managed?

May I remind you that we are still on Obama's budget?

Then consider this...  If we are doing that well, why are we about to blow another 1.5 trillion dollar hole in the deficit with more tax cuts for the wealthy?  

When has that ever worked in the past?

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1 hour ago, oldtech said:

Have any of you considered that the economy is doing so well because over the last eight years it has been well managed?

May I remind you that we are still on Obama's budget?

Lol

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2 hours ago, oldtech said:

Have any of you considered that the economy is doing so well because over the last eight years it has been well managed?

May I remind you that we are still on Obama's budget?

Then consider this...  If we are doing that well, why are we about to blow another 1.5 trillion dollar hole in the deficit with more tax cuts for the wealthy?  

When has that ever worked in the past?

When the bottom 50 percent pay in less than they recieve it's kinda hard to cut taxes.....

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2 hours ago, mader656 said:

When the bottom 50 percent pay in less than they recieve it's kinda hard to cut taxes.....

Really?

So you think that YOU are in the top 50%???   Not even close, friend.  Not even close!

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September 12, 2017

WASHINGTON — Despite eight years of economic growth since a brutal recession, some politicians and economists have worried that many Americans have not felt the benefits of the expansion.

On Tuesday, the Census Bureau painted a brighter picture, suggesting that the recovery had shifted into a new phase in recent years and is now distributing its benefits more broadly.

American households saw strong income growth last year, the bureau reported, and the gains stretched across the economic spectrum. A closely watched measure, median household income, jumped for the second straight year, reaching $59,039 — a 3.2 percent increase after inflation.

The bureau also reported that the percentage of Americans living in poverty continued to fall last year, while the share with health insurance continued to increase.

 

 

Here you go, oldtech. Straight out of the New York Slimes.  Median income means half are above, half are below. There’s probably quite a few of us in the top 50%.   Roughly 156 million people, by definition, depending on the latest census figures. 

Edited by ihrondiesel
Added to it

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28 minutes ago, oldtech said:

Really?

So you think that YOU are in the top 50%???   Not even close, friend.  Not even close!

I admit I'm not in the top 50 percent, and I'm ok with that...still can't cut zero....

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2 hours ago, mader656 said:

When the bottom 50 percent pay in less than they recieve it's kinda hard to cut taxes.....

51.9% of all income is ear

 

6 minutes ago, ihrondiesel said:

September 12, 2017

WASHINGTON — Despite eight years of economic growth since a brutal recession, some politicians and economists have worried that many Americans have not felt the benefits of the expansion.

On Tuesday, the Census Bureau painted a brighter picture, suggesting that the recovery had shifted into a new phase in recent years and is now distributing its benefits more broadly.

American households saw strong income growth last year, the bureau reported, and the gains stretched across the economic spectrum. A closely watched measure, median household income, jumped for the second straight year, reaching $59,039 — a 3.2 percent increase after inflation.

The bureau also reported that the percentage of Americans living in poverty continued to fall last year, while the share with health insurance continued to increase.

 

 

Here you go, oldtech. Straight out of the New York Slimes.  Median income means half are above, half are below. There’s probably quite a few of us in the top 50%. 

First, let me thank you for confirming that the economy has substantially recovered after the Bush recession.

Second,  you are misinterpreting the data.  In fact 51.9% of all income is earned by the top quintile - meaning top 20% of wage earners. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/203247/shares-of-household-income-of-quintiles-in-the-us/

Now consider that the bottom 3 quintiles are ALL net receivers of government payments....

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-18/60-households-get-more-benefits-they-pay-taxes

So... in order to be a net contributor you have to be in the top 20% which you aint...

THEN realize that this is just w2 wage earners and not hedge fund managers or CEOs or New York real estate developers and such which would be completely off these charts....

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Screenshot_2017-12-04-18-24-47.thumb.png.d9025bfbc71e1ed1dd2d7ce8ef31441c.png

Three guesses when election day last year was 

Or was that When Obama's economy finally took off?

Or was that When businesses breathed in hope for the first time...

Forgive the screen shot....

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Last Wednesday we were at a grain marketing that had a really interesting keynote speaker. He was a high up in the Wells Fargo securities division. He had some really good information and insight on the markets in general. Now granted, this is his interpretation of signals on the market.

First off, He told us was the obscene amount of junk stocks that all the world's central banks hold because of the 2008 economic meltdown. Worldwide these banks hold on to 17 Trillion dollars on assets. The plan is supposedly starting next year these banks are going to start unwinding some of these assets. These assets as we know aren't worth what these central banks bought them for during the 2008 bailouts. While unwinding from these assets how do you do so without breaking the bank because lets face it no one is going to buy these junk assets for what they paid for them. He said if the people who are the head of this rollback do it carefully it can be done. He said he wishes he could tell us the people in charge of this knew what they were doing but he couldn't assure anyone because this is uncharted territory. 

Another thing he said is what a lot of us know. That the government under the previous administration and a number of other governments across the world don't trust anyone of the general population to manage any of their own money. Hence all the taxes and regulations and fees forced upon us. It kept the economy choked back.

Another  thing he pointed out is that the difference between the long term interest rates and the short term interest rates are narrowing. He said that normally this points to a start of a recession in the next 12 months, how severe is anyone's guess. He said that with all the junk assets that these central banks are trying to unload at the same time a recession starts there isn't much anyone is going to be able to do to rectify the situation. 

Now this is just his interpretation of the signals the market is sending but it wasn't a glowing approval of the previous administration. 

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47 minutes ago, mader656 said:

Screenshot_2017-12-04-18-24-47.thumb.png.d9025bfbc71e1ed1dd2d7ce8ef31441c.png

Three guesses when election day last year was 

Or was that When Obama's economy finally took off?

Or was that When businesses breathed in hope for the first time...

Forgive the screen shot....

Sorry, there friend but thats a deliberately cropped chart to support a lie....

This is the whole story.  

 

Dow long term chart.jpg

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42 minutes ago, Reichow7120 said:

Last Wednesday we were at a grain marketing that had a really interesting keynote speaker. He was a high up in the Wells Fargo securities division. He had some really good information and insight on the markets in general. Now granted, this is his interpretation of signals on the market.

First off, He told us was the obscene amount of junk stocks that all the world's central banks hold because of the 2008 economic meltdown. Worldwide these banks hold on to 17 Trillion dollars on assets. The plan is supposedly starting next year these banks are going to start unwinding some of these assets. These assets as we know aren't worth what these central banks bought them for during the 2008 bailouts. While unwinding from these assets how do you do so without breaking the bank because lets face it no one is going to buy these junk assets for what they paid for them. He said if the people who are the head of this rollback do it carefully it can be done. He said he wishes he could tell us the people in charge of this knew what they were doing but he couldn't assure anyone because this is uncharted territory. 

Another thing he said is what a lot of us know. That the government under the previous administration and a number of other governments across the world don't trust anyone of the general population to manage any of their own money. Hence all the taxes and regulations and fees forced upon us. It kept the economy choked back.

Another  thing he pointed out is that the difference between the long term interest rates and the short term interest rates are narrowing. He said that normally this points to a start of a recession in the next 12 months, how severe is anyone's guess. He said that with all the junk assets that these central banks are trying to unload at the same time a recession starts there isn't much anyone is going to be able to do to rectify the situation. 

Now this is just his interpretation of the signals the market is sending but it wasn't a glowing approval of the previous administration. 

Why you would trust anything that Wells Fargo says is beyond me.  this is the same bank that got caught opening millions of unauthorized accounts to bilk their own clients.  The idea that Obama "choked" the economy is BS since he did not repeal the Bush tax cuts or add any other fees or taxes at the Federal level.  The whole problem goes back to the deregulation of banks that allowed them to hold stocks in the first place which was banned until Clinton and the Republicans repealed Glass-Stegal regs.  Those so called "worthless" stocks were mostly dealt with as part of the ARA and mostly involved bundled worthless mortgages.  The Repubs and Trump and going to repeal that now.  Hold onto your butts (again).

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Personally I trust neither side. Each side has a agenda to push. Government included.  

You were putting out figures and to have a true honest discussion you need opposing viewpoints. You definitely believe strongly in your viewpoints and a number of us believe ours.

There is a saying. Numbers never lie but the people who figure them sure do. That applies to BOTH SIDES the argument 

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