Recommended Posts

Ford Rotunda is another one to look for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got a Sun machine sitting in my shop that hasn't been used for about 25 years. Unfortunately its a long way from California.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rick harrison had one 2 years back in LV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I am having problems with a gas or LP engine I check these items.  They will often show you the problem.

Compression, Timing and Vacuum.

Good Luck!

Thx-Ace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Owen Aaland said:

I've got a Sun machine sitting in my shop that hasn't been used for about 25 years. Unfortunately its a long way from California.

 

 If it works and would work on these old girls , and you willing to sell it , I'll worry about the shipping. But must have a manual or you need to teach me how to use it. lol.

   Better yet , I know your a propane expert . You deliver it and show us how to use it and diagnose our problem . I'll pay for the service call.  Not Joking if it fits your schedule.

 I notice your from Zumbrota MN. **** you and Danny can do a service call ,when the weather gets bad back there. 

    Need it running good by Feb of 18 or sooner.

      Tony

 

      Tony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, acem said:

When I am having problems with a gas or LP engine I check these items.  They will often show you the problem.

Compression, Timing and Vacuum.

Good Luck!

Thx-Ace

  Going to go back and start over , Using you template.

   Tony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On November 9, 2017 at 1:07 AM, tony in ca. said:

      Well Guys.

         Plugs, Coil, Wires made no difference.

           Engine is sounding worse the more time I put on it.

        Next on the agenda will be to re-run valves again and check valve train. Then replace L.P. regulator.

          Wonder if this is possible ? May try it any way and that is ; Putting a gas carb on it and feed it with a nurse can to try to isolate problem. See if it runs better on gas then propane , Then we know its a fuel problem.

    Another question ; Anyone know if there are older engine monitors available that would monitor engine functions with out a computer ? I searched internet but everything I find is basically to monitor engine codes and plug into computers.

  This engine has been a stomper !

          Tony.  

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Forgot page 5 

, suppose to start with sorry hope it help anybody that new or rusty like me 

image.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, tony in ca. said:

 If it works and would work on these old girls , and you willing to sell it , I'll worry about the shipping. But must have a manual or you need to teach me how to use it. lol.

   Better yet , I know your a propane expert . You deliver it and show us how to use it and diagnose our problem . I'll pay for the service call.  Not Joking if it fits your schedule.

 I notice your from Zumbrota MN. **** you and Danny can do a service call ,when the weather gets bad back there. 

    Need it running good by Feb of 18 or sooner.

      Tony

 

      Tony

You can find newer models that test single plug wires and give patterns on small scope on eBay. Lot easier to ship and store unless you want a big one for a collector piece. Good luck with it keep us updated. You don't know how many times we ground valves, pulled valve covers changed springs or whatever on those older gas engines they were pretty durable. A few times even pulled burnt pistons out and swapped with donor stuff from scrap engines.503 gas combines , 656 gas , ford 200 sixes, Chrysler and ford industrial v8s.And 345 gas engines were all popular here A screw driver , pliers and piece of Emory cloth and a bucket of spare parts usually had those gas engines running. Plus spare valves and springs in bucket of parts for most.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Want a better plug?

Step 1. Order plug adapters from REAM it is the 18mm to 14mm.

Step 2. Call NGK tech line, give them the run down on the engine including the compression ratio.  With the adapters it gives you the ability to run a more common 3/4" reach 14mm.  They are very helpful on the racing and the odd ball stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with verifying:

Compression?

Timing?

Vacuum?

If all falls in where it belongs, you then may want to look at the fuel as this sounds like it is running lean? I worked with propane a lot and never got that deep into the tune up end. They always ran great with the exception of an 806 LP that I could not keep exhaust valves in it. I left before it was fixed. I always felt that it needed more fuel as it was running lean and would cut an exhaust valve like a acetylene torch did it. If you have lost a valve, the compression will tell the tale, but it needs to have been worked hard to do so. Are you running this on a dyno, are you loading it some other way, or just having it run.

I will do some investigating on the mixer/carburetor adjustment to increase fuel. It has a lock nut on the outside of the mixer and you then turn the inner piece in, or out, to adjust but I do not know which way for more, or less, fuel.

You could take it to your local friendly California car test station and have them sniff the exhaust to see if it is lean/rich?

Update:

Look at: http://www.rasoenterprises.com/propane/31-carburetion/65-impco-fuel-mixtures

This explains how the mixer/carb works and gives the exhaust CO readings using an exhaust analyzer, This is for Impco units, you should have an Ensign brand but there is little info on those but all do the same job. Would need to find the original IH propane service manual for Ensign. I would use the Impco truck info as that is close to the heavy use of a tractor.

So much has been checked, I am putting my money on a fuel issue. There will be a learning curve. Hopefully this thing runs great and soon.

DD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank You Gentlemen for all the great input.

   Tony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

      Well Fellas & Ladies ,

          I think we finally have the old Texas Cotton girl running good.

          Today started by re checking valve tappets & re torqueing head.  Installed new Auto lite 3116's

       Still the slight miss . Started pulling wires while running found #6 had very little slight change in miss.  Wires are new, changed them with other new wires, still the same.

         The bright idea hit that lets change the new distributor cap for another cap. Even tough it looked immaculate . Boom, Noticed a big difference , Now we re set the timing  and got it idling like never before weather cap does not even move at idle .

       Hit throttle hard ,no hesitation ,  At high rpm no missing sound but still at about 600-700 rpm I still think I here slight miss . Maybe I am paranoid.!

      We did hot compression test and they all come up to 160-165 , Its disappointing because factory book  says  184  for 301 L.P.

          Going to get some hours on her then run on Dyno and break her in .

          As for compression, these pistons ,even though they are after market , look the same as the originals that came out of it , as far as dimensions and creators.

          I have a old school  Sun /Snap on , engine monitor spotted trying to buy it , may be awhile.

           So ,at this point, seems new distributor cap may have been culprit.

           Fuel wise, she starts fine, accelerates good, does not load up or hesitate . Little by little we will isolate it .

       Its been a challenge for these two old farts, but, hey! got to keep learning and not forget basic trouble shooting. That's what they taught me in FFA Farm shop back in the sixties.

        Tony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tony do you know what casting number head you are using and what was the part # of the oem piston I have worked on a lot of 301s  a few of which were lp gas I do not remember ever having one have 180+ psi compression pressure.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, R190 said:

Tony do you know what casting number head you are using and what was the part # of the oem piston I have worked on a lot of 301s  a few of which were lp gas I do not remember ever having one have 180+ psi compression pressure.

 

Isn't that at a specific rpm also like almost 200 rpms or someplace around there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, R190 said:

Tony do you know what casting number head you are using and what was the part # of the oem piston I have worked on a lot of 301s  a few of which were lp gas I do not remember ever having one have 180+ psi compression pressure.

 

I'm curious about that too...seems high.

I've had a 806 LP since 1974 and it depends on what you are doing with the tractor, but for field use we always set our tractor up with AC C83 plugs gapped at .015. 

Just tuned up that tractor yesterday with Autolite 373 plugs gapped at .015 and it runs like a top.

Got to be careful with LP, it runs hotter then gasoline and requires a colder plug in normal to heavy service. For parade queens or light use you can get away with a warmer plug. 

Never forget the narrow gap either or you'll be scratching your head with starting issues and misfires....lol

Neighbor had a JD 2 cylinder on propane and called me one day mad as a hornet that after he tuned it up it wouldn't fire a shot. Turns out he gapped the plugs at .030. Narrowed them up and it started right up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Go figure, a new cap or rotor makes the machine run poorly,  I was rebuilding the magneto on my welder this fall.  Put it all back together and thought I had it made, no spark, after a lot of cussing and three or four times redoing the whole set up and timing a guy on the welder forum suggested I check the rotor button to post for grounding.  Sure enough the new rotor was grounding to the shaft, replaced it and it worked.   I still have a skip every now and then, so I will be checking the big three this spring, compression, vacuum leaks, valve adjustment 

 

 

hope its running well now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have that book also did you notice the diesel specs are for the RD pump?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 You Guys are a tremendous resource ! Thank You for all your input .

        Yes , I have plugs set at .015  Electronic Ignition.

            However, NOTICE THE 301 L.P. COMPRESSION AT CRANKING SPEED at 210 .

              On both rebuilds the most I get is 165 -170.

          I have two books that list compression on a 301 L.P. one says 184 and the other tells me 210 and my gage tells me 160-170 actual after warm up about 1 hour and with no plugs in head.

   BTW the plugs I have in it now are Auto- lite  3116 its the cross over of a Champion D-15 Y .  I'll certainly try others as Doc Egor  stated AC- c83 or Auto Lite 373 ?

   The head # is 382-099-R1

     Tony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, dale560 said:

Here are the official tuneup specs from the old days

IMG_1773.JPG

IMG_1775.JPG

 Thank You Sir.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, tony in ca. said:

 You Guys are a tremendous resource ! Thank You for all your input .

        Yes , I have plugs set at .015  Electronic Ignition.

            However, NOTICE THE 301 L.P. COMPRESSION AT CRANKING SPEED at 210 .

              On both rebuilds the most I get is 165 -170.

          I have two books that list compression on a 301 L.P. one says 184 and the other tells me 210 and my gage tells me 160-170 actual after warm up about 1 hour and with no plugs in head.

   BTW the plugs I have in it now are Auto- lite  3116 its the cross over of a Champion D-15 Y .  I'll certainly try others as Doc Egor  stated AC- c83 or Auto Lite 373 ?

   The head # is 382-099-R1

     Tony

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm curious how long you have had the electronic ignition on that tractor?

We tried the Pertronix "Ignitor" kits a couple times, but they just couldn't handle the heavier current load from the coil due to the narrow gap plugs and would burn out in just an hour or two. They worked fine on the gasoline engine tractors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Doc Egor said:

I'm curious how long you have had the electronic ignition on that tractor?

We tried the Pertronix "Ignitor" kits a couple times, but they just couldn't handle the heavier current load from the coil due to the narrow gap plugs and would burn out in just an hour or two. They worked fine on the gasoline engine tractors.

   Rather then count calendar days ,  They have been on for 5 hours of operation.  I am wondering that also ,will report later when we get more time on Her.

   Tony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, tony in ca. said:

 

I wouldn't be worried about those pressure readings. They should be more than okay for a running engine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now