tony in ca.

New Tractor Shed Started ,Sept 7,17

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Looks great  ! 

I'm just curious does anyone build wood framed buildings in California?  I can understand for your purpose that the steel frame building is the best option . Here in Ontario, Canada the majority of farm storage buildings and even large livestock barns are wood framed still.

 

 

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4 hours ago, rjpont said:

Looks great  ! 

I'm just curious does anyone build wood framed buildings in California?  I can understand for your purpose that the steel frame building is the best option . Here in Ontario, Canada the majority of farm storage buildings and even large livestock barns are wood framed still.

 

 

    Back In 80's & 90's there was a great pole barn builder that did all wood. 

       Since he retired, now most are steel.  This is a Butler Building , My existing shop is also a Butler Building built in 1988.

    to   Answer your question all that I am  aware of are steel. 

       We don't deal with snow or deep frozen ground, but do deal with strong winds & pounding hot sun, and when lucky heavy rains.

           Tony

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 if a butler salesman showed up here he would be ran off.  Back in the sixties we built 5, 30 x 200 cattle sheds and within 10 years they rotted out and were falling down.  They were guaranteed for 20 years with cattle.  Butler said we put too many head in them and wouldn't honor the warantee.

jerry

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similar to how they were represented here

if a butler salesman showed up here he would be ran off.  Back in the sixties we built 5, 30 x 200 cattle sheds and within 10 years they rotted out and were falling down.  They were guaranteed for 20 years with cattle.  Butler said we put too many head in them and wouldn't honor the warranty

basically 2 others + 4x $$$$ overpriced morton  so we source parts and build your own  or most are going  hoop  BC  that size PB would be $100K for tax

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5 hours ago, SMOKER 1 said:

 if a butler salesman showed up here he would be ran off.  Back in the sixties we built 5, 30 x 200 cattle sheds and within 10 years they rotted out and were falling down.  They were guaranteed for 20 years with cattle.  Butler said we put too many head in them and wouldn't honor the warantee.

jerry

  Humm !

       Out here they are supposedly the high priced better quality buildings being offered .

        There are many steel buildings being offered at low prices, but no contractor along with them ! They expect you to build them yourself , Well the **** with that ,I am a Farmer not a building contractor and never wanted to be and not my expertize .  Like my F.I.L. says, "There are people that do that for a living"

     My old shop was built in 1988 ,old owner had cats all over, they sprayed to beat ****, all over and I have six panels with rust that I will replace now that they are here.

     Supreme Construction is one of the few out here that does it all and they are an exclusive Butler although they told me I could buy others and they would  put them up.

     I chose Butler because my existing shop is Butler and I've had nothing but love for it and I wanted both to more or less match.

     Also most guys in the know out here tell me ," Oh, Butler is more expensive but their tin is thicker then all the others." I don't care if it is or not , I wont live long enough to rot the worse of it . The reason I am going this way is because of SUPREME CONSTRUCTION been in business long and have built most of the prominent Almond hulling & Pistachio Hulling facilities in Fresno & Tulare County  along with dairy barns & free stalls etc.

    It comes down to customer service from the local contactor.  Also , Butler has a plant in Visalia ,Ca. 40 miles south I can go in and talk to them as I already have. This building came from that plant.

 Today's progress.

            Tony

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Location location location. Here in Ontario Canada butler hadn't be seen in years and lots of other suppliers have sprung up. We have one company that just specializes in components and if you need a replacement or parts for a build just call and parts are on the way no matter if you a contractor or a building owner  The quoset hut style buildings went outta favour here years ago and are replaced by hoop style buildings but for equipment storage for 10-15% more you get a better pole style building that you have more than in one end and out the other. Steel buildings like the one you are building here would be 50-80% more than a wood pole/steel clad implement shed. 

Great looking building and collection, best of luck 

John 

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13 hours ago, Weapon said:

Location location location. Here in Ontario Canada butler hadn't be seen in years and lots of other suppliers have sprung up. We have one company that just specializes in components and if you need a replacement or parts for a build just call and parts are on the way no matter if you a contractor or a building owner  The quoset hut style buildings went outta favour here years ago and are replaced by hoop style buildings but for equipment storage for 10-15% more you get a better pole style building that you have more than in one end and out the other. Steel buildings like the one you are building here would be 50-80% more than a wood pole/steel clad implement shed. 

Great looking building and collection, best of luck 

John 

         This building with 4 roll ups, three 16w x14 h and one 14x14   three on building one on old building ,three man doors , full insulation , three door concrete aprons, 40x85 x 18, one connecting slab new to old building , erected , all permits , ready to move in , right at 105,000.00 Just the permit process was 2700.00 of that price.

  Tony

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Tony----

Just a suggestion----while they are on site;------ you might want them to add an extra wall pearling at approx 50% of height of the current lower pearling.

Adds a lot of strength in the side wall.  We put my shop building up in 1975-------18 ft eave height-------pearlings were spaced same as yours.  I happened to trip and fall against the outside wall and felt the flex.  Had the contractor to add a lower pearling------sure made a difference.  Don't remember if they charged anything or not------but sure made me feel better.

Building is 90x50x18 enclosed with blanket insulation, plus an open 30 ft shed across rear and nort side.   (2  30x16 sliding doors with 3 walk doors)------cost $30,000 and I did plumbing/electricity).

Steel prices starting jumping shortly thereafter------haven't stopped since.  Where did the good old days go???:unsure:

DD

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  Thanks for the heads up on the extra pearling.

          Yes, DD ,things have gone crazy in prices,  I had built a pad for formal shop at ranch in late seventies ,then the eighties hit , Farm Crises ! It was all I could do to keep farming .

       Had a real estate man tell me in 1984 that if you had a new shop & house on a 80 acre planting of Grapes or Almonds , you sold the land and threw in the house & shop as a bonus to get it sold. :o  I about died when he showed me examples.

     Well, the pad is still at ranch and I said the heck with shop and at the high interest rate on building in 70's & 80's , My thought was use the local blacksmith for repairs for less in a year's repairs then the interest on shop & supplies.;)

       Always pined for a shop but could never justify one, business wise ,then bought this place in 2008 with a 40x70 shop and who would of thought that in 2017 build another and like you say the prices have increase expedicously  in the ensuing   years.  Still cannot justify shop, business wise , but play wise can justify many of them:lol: along with the old Red girls to fill them:D

      Never the less had to wait to age 62 for first shop and age 72 for second one:lol:  BTW , Sold the Ranch last April with the pad still there but ,NO SHOP,

           Tony

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Tony, curious as to why they are putting the wall panels up before the roof is on? Do they lock into the roof panels some how?

Looking great!

Sid

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"real estate man......throw in shop and house to get farm sold"

That's known as the "contributory value" factor in the appraisal process.  Especially in the farmland market--------the land (dirt) is the base commodity that the buyers are looking at.  Some true investment buyers prefer no building improvements.

Not exactly the case in the commercial/industrial market-----where the building may draw more market appeal.

Hopefully you will have it depreciated out by the time you and Sal are fully depreciated!!!!  But the roof won't be leaking and all of that red paint will still be shining!!!!!:D

 

DD

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5 hours ago, Ihfan4life said:

Tony, curious as to why they are putting the wall panels up before the roof is on? Do they lock into the roof panels some how?

Looking great!

Sid

 Good question ! I was wondering and assuming the same thing.  Have not had the chance to ask them, Figured the heck with it they must know what they are doing. I hope .:(

      Tony

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2 hours ago, Delta Dirt said:

"real estate man......throw in shop and house to get farm sold"

That's known as the "contributory value" factor in the appraisal process.  Especially in the farmland market--------the land (dirt) is the base commodity that the buyers are looking at.  Some true investment buyers prefer no building improvements.

Not exactly the case in the commercial/industrial market-----where the building may draw more market appeal.

Hopefully you will have it depreciated out by the time you and Sal are fully depreciated!!!!  But the roof won't be leaking and all of that red paint will still be shining!!!!!:D

 

DD

    DD ,

     I did not make my ideas well known in that statement.

      All the above is the normal process of buying selling and keeping land.

     What I was referring too is ; I was on farm credit board from 1978 to 1993 I saw the blood bath in the eighties first hand, from the inside and had privy to financial statements of growers going into foreclosure

       In the seventies guys were building new homes and farm shops borrowing against their land & equity . Three years later because of the additional debt load along with the dropping commodities , and land values falling to rock bottom , So many were trying to sell in lieu of foreclosure, I saw many Vineyards & Orchards out here that were selling for 10,000.00 Per Acre drop to 2500.00 per acre and at that price it would only sell if the owner threw in   house and shop . So, essentially they still had mortgage on house and shop and were giving it away just to get rid of their land.

     My point was: I took the approach of ,"I'll be go to **** if I'm going to build a shop and improvements on my main farmland only to give it away in case of financial collapse."

      That lesson lasted with me from early in my career to the present. Very hard lesson to witness.

          When I sold My ranch last April of 17, I sold good land, Good Orchards, and good water . All the improvements was a 6ox200 pole barn , old sheds , home built farm office, and a small tenant house. Buildings were just adequate to run operation.

         My home place here, On the other hand, that I live on is only 20 acres , 1 & I/2 mile from the sold working  ranch. I have my house , two shops , two irrigation wells, newly planted orchard.  I don't make my living on this place and if I had to sell it, I need to appeal to the City guy who wants a gentle man farm and play room. So, The improvements should sell it ,as appose to the main ranch;  It was production & water, and ease of operating it ,that a farmer wanted and willing to pay for.

 Today,     Out here in the Almond business land prices with good water,  during the recent drought, skyrocketed like the seventies, So many more marginal acres and farmers have and are planting and I was NOT going to wait around to see what happens when all these new acres come into production !

       What's the old saying," Pigs get fat & hogs get slaughtered.":lol:

    I hope you understand what I was trying to point out.

           Tony

 

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I understood you "exactly" as my man Herman Cain would say Tony.  (just saw him on Fox news tonight)

I got poor "enough to retire" from farming in the 80's.  In my farmland real estate practice-----I too have seen the dark side of many "printed in red" financial statements.  Hoping we never see the situation of the 80's again-------BUT, history tells us that it usually repeats itself.

Lots of truth to the pigs/hogs theory.;)

Edit:   And-------let's hope our memory of past experiences is that of an elephant!!

I figure if I can just live long enuff------I will be a wise old man.  Problem is I am about "depreciated out"!!!!

*******

Keep us posted with building progress------it's always interesting to see new construction.

DD 

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1 hour ago, Delta Dirt said:

I understood you "exactly" as my man Herman Cain would say Tony.  (just saw him on Fox news tonight)

I got poor "enough to retire" from farming in the 80's.  In my farmland real estate practice-----I too have seen the dark side of many "printed in red" financial statements.  Hoping we never see the situation of the 80's again-------BUT, history tells us that it usually repeats itself.

Lots of truth to the pigs/hogs theory.;)

*******

Keep us posted with building progress------it's always interesting to see new construction.

DD 

      I sure will DD .

           Yes , our age and history have left certain caution flags indelible in our brains .

            I don't wish the eighties ever again . So painful to watch hard working men & women loose everything by just being in wrong place at the wrong time .

          I suspect it was my generation's depression that painted my Dad's view when I was growing up.

               Tony

 

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      Little Monday Progress  11/6/17

         Tony

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Got to say that is pretty decent price on a built building that size. Here in  middle of no where North Dakota the concrete with pouring would be almost 40,000. 8 to 10,000 for the doors and 7 dollars a square foot just for building labor not including any finish work. You are getting that building built for 1/2 to 2\3 s the price up here. Neighbor just built a 28 x32 ft 8 ft tall garage on a existing pad. Cost him 21,000 with 7,000 of that labor. He had one small garage door from existing building  and this is just a cheap garage nothing fancy.

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 like it so far....too small

every region is different

those prices/times are astronomical   last costs I looked at were list < $35 sqf 

with just cursory checking ...

building   + - .46 cuf                $25K   labor < $15K     

concrete site and dirt work  $12K  labor $8K

fully finished interior               $15K   labor $10-12K

                                                                   $87K - 20% = $65K  sharp pencil  maybe another 10%

have not done something so simple in years

commercial refits we did.. earth to open.. open thru destroy /replace/refit/open

never more than 6 months  ...

longest from site owner submit our plans to state/local .to.shell up ... oct-thru march  many 20* days and enough wind doors had to be locked with guard to keep from being torn off AGAIN

submitting to state  norm would be open in 90 days or 70 after permit

depending on sqf  fixed required essentials would be $290-350K refit $60-120K  believe the highest was $450K  at 4 months

others were charging $610-800K and  18-22  months for lesser quality

could find photos but only if Tony wants

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Like I said you got a pretty good price on the building tony. I know it would be over 200,000 here. The only thing different would be 2000 more on insulation. I just talked to the owner of our local chevy dealer. He was going to get a 50x60 concreted 35,000 was cheapest quote. 

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  I  Thought the prices was very reasonable. Concrete out here is in short demand because of the idiotic train to no where and the big dam repairs.

         Remember, That does not include electrical . 

       Also out here most do not finish the inside with the light white sheets over insulation.

      I want that finished look with the light sheeting inside , It will be pricy , they quoted somewhere around another ten thousand.& electrical, no quote yet.

          Tony

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My buddy got into shop fever a 7 or 8 years ago. He had the cash on hand to build the building. It is 70x80 with 70 x100 ft long storage building on back. A 20 x 20 office area on the front outside corner. 450,000 into building. He does a lot of his own maintenance in shop. But the last 2 years he always tells me the money he spent on shop he has gone backwards not getting his operating paid back. He was farming 4500 acres of dry land and feeding a 1000 steers a winter. Now he is broke like the rest of us.

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Since its a price compare thread now..;)

We never do steel here since we have a few trees around.  Base quote for a shop/barn..  Lets say 60x40x14.  Cement stem walls, cement floor, tin roof and sides, no insulation, $13/sq ft.  Site prep and elec, doors etc extra.  FYI

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Tony, haven`t read ALL the comments here but will you heat/cool/ventilate this building?

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1 hour ago, MTO said:

Tony, haven`t read ALL the comments here but will you heat/cool/ventilate this building?

       It will be insulated , Have normal vents on roof.

         As for heat no provisions , and no provisions for cooling.   With the placement of doors we should have a nice breeze coming through and with one or two porta cools should be adequate .  As for heat while working will use a couple torpedo heaters we have propane close by.

    With our current shop of 40x70 we use one big porta cool ,with a smaller porta cool to help and we work in there when weather is 105 outside and it only has coating on roof.

     For heat we use one torpedo heater on propane and in extreme conditions supplement with a radiant diesel fired heater.

       Our extreme months are Dec.15 through Jan 30 and  June 15 through August 15, otherwise pretty decent. Remember , we are not working in there everyday 8-5 .

           Tony

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1 hour ago, dale560 said:

My buddy got into shop fever a 7 or 8 years ago. He had the cash on hand to build the building. It is 70x80 with 70 x100 ft long storage building on back. A 20 x 20 office area on the front outside corner. 450,000 into building. He does a lot of his own maintenance in shop. But the last 2 years he always tells me the money he spent on shop he has gone backwards not getting his operating paid back. He was farming 4500 acres of dry land and feeding a 1000 steers a winter. Now he is broke like the rest of us.

 That's what I was referring to in above posts with DD.

     I found while farming full time it was cheaper and more expedient to use mobile mechanic and local blacksmith then pay interest & payment & stock a good shop.  Of course we do not have down time like you in snow areas have.  So we can stay busy year round farming instead of shop time.

       Both of these shops now are for restorations and Red Girls storage & motor home & gooseneck storage.

       Could not afford it when my nose was to grindstone . Now using some of that equity to play with .

         BTW, from a banker , Accountant, and common sense old Farmer's perspective , all these items mentioned as reason for my shops now," ARE PISS POOR INVESTMENTS !"

         But like they say," None of these funeral Hurst's have rear hitches for trailers carrying the money saved,  to the grave site.":(

   So ,if someone else is going to spend it , It might as well be ME !:P

    Tony

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