pms1961

IH 886 with German diesel

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Subject probably rehashed a million times.Looking at a 886 with the 358 German diesel how do they compare to theD360?Thank's for any opinion's or comment's.Paul

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D-358, Easy on fuel, cost more to work on, gutless. 

D-360 is easy to work on, not bad on fuel, parts are affordable and can be found. Will tug and lug more.

No one will run from a 360, lots wont even raise their head up when they hear German engine. 

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I like my 826 with the 358. Never thought it was gutles, but then again it has an m&w turbo on it. Its getting pretty tired and in need of an overhaul. 358 and turbo both.

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We a D-358 on a 786 and that tractor is fat from gutless so I disagree with that statement. That tractor has always ran out of traction before you ran out of power. No turbo, pump is set the way it came to the dealer. Family has had it since new in Nov 1982. 8074 hrs on the engine without being opened up. Uses very little oil so until a problem pops up we have no intentions of opening it up.

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We have one in our 886. It does what we ask of it, spreads manure, blows the silos full. It's nothing compared to our 766 with the 360 though. It seems as if it has more power and tourque. The 358 is good, no doubt, the 360 is just slightly better.

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all depends on where you are. 'round here I'd say the 358 was a better-liked engine

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We have 2 826's and one 826 with a turbo, also 886 with a turbo and one 886 without turbo with the Ih 360's . The turbo definitely wakes both engines up. I think the 358 is better on fuel but I can't say I notice much power difference. The real test would be to have an 886 358 and 886 360. Both engines are good imo.

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As far as parts however, there are more German diesel in our wrecker yards than there are the 360 engines.

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Most times the topic of a Nuess engine is in comparison to a D-282, in which case a D-310 is always preferred.

Son drove trucks one summer in Laffeyette, Indiana,  those near there probably know for who.  Son grabbed a truck with an IH 9.0 L because it would outrun the Chevy 427'S, the DT-360'S, and even the non-turbo D-466'S.  Only thing he couldn't run with was DT-466'S.

Nobody here before claimed thinking the D-358 was gutless.  I know Nuess parts can be difficult to find, CIH, Fiat, whoever is in charge have discontinued some parts,  the D-360 probably won't suffer that problem for a couple more years.  360 was a popular school bus engine I believe.  I've seen some discussions on other forums whether the D-360/DT-360 or the 5.9L Cummins is the better engine,  final results were a tie, half felt D360/DT360 better, half felt 5.9L better.  Fact a 360 has sleeves swayed lots of votes, as does the D-358.

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We have an original 886 with German diesal and it will pull like a mule not turbo and the fuel pump hasn't been turned up and is still at factory settings. My dad said when he was young they used t as a dozer pushing trees over and clearing land. Like they said earlier it will break traction before bogging down and uses no oil and is easy on the fuel.

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We had a 826 years ago.  358 was amazing on fuel and power.  Pulled a 710 5/18 plow with no effort.  Wish I still had it.

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I've never run a 360 but my 826 is pretty strong. It has a 886 (358) engine. It won't pull with my 856 though.  Eason

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On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 1:59 PM, DOCTOR EVIL said:

Most times the topic of a Nuess engine is in comparison to a D-282, in which case a D-310 is always preferred.

Son drove trucks one summer in Laffeyette, Indiana,  those near there probably know for who.  Son grabbed a truck with an IH 9.0 L because it would outrun the Chevy 427'S, the DT-360'S, and even the non-turbo D-466'S.  Only thing he couldn't run with was DT-466'S.

Nobody here before claimed thinking the D-358 was gutless.  I know Nuess parts can be difficult to find, CIH, Fiat, whoever is in charge have discontinued some parts,  the D-360 probably won't suffer that problem for a couple more years.  360 was a popular school bus engine I believe.  I've seen some discussions on other forums whether the D-360/DT-360 or the 5.9L Cummins is the better engine,  final results were a tie, half felt D360/DT360 better, half felt 5.9L better.  Fact a 360 has sleeves swayed lots of votes, as does the D-358.

Is the 360 engine based at all on the 361 put in the 806? Al

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3 minutes ago, IHRedDrive said:

Is the 360 engine based at all on the 361 put in the 806? Al

Nope,  it has some features similar to the Nuess 358,  but is basically a slightly smaller 400-series.

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Bought the 886 I was looking at.So far pretty sweet running machine.Had to fix a few minor things.Ballast resistor for alternator was toast and repaired non working gauges.Next on the list is the four way flashers/turn signals then check clutch adjustment.And remove ugly toolbox from top of fender.

Paul

20170905_190326.jpg

20170905_190259.jpg

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1 hour ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

Nope,  it has some features similar to the Nuess 358,  but is basically a slightly smaller 400-series.

Had an 806 with the 361. That thing was titanium.

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3 hours ago, IHRedDrive said:

Had an 806 with the 361. That thing was titanium.

Yep,  lots of D-361's went well over 10,000 hours without any serious work.  D-407 was good too.  It shared many design features with the 361.

IH was almost as bad as Ford.  Ford had three different 351's that shared nothing except blue paint,  Windsor, Cleveland, and Modified, and the little FE, 352.  I H had Nuess D-358, D-360, and D-361 and they only shared the red paint.

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Ran both......360 may hold better when pulled down, but I rather have the Kraut.  A lot has to do with how you run them, the Germans like to spin the crankshaft.

 

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15 hours ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

Yep,  lots of D-361's went well over 10,000 hours without any serious work.  D-407 was good too.  It shared many design features with the 361.

IH was almost as bad as Ford.  Ford had three different 351's that shared nothing except blue paint,  Windsor, Cleveland, and Modified, and the little FE, 352.  I H had Nuess D-358, D-360, and D-361 and they only shared the red paint.

Appreciate the Ford comment. Thought the Windsor and Cleveland motors were designated build sites not different motors. But what do I know, I'm a Mopar guy lol

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15 hours ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

Yep,  lots of D-361's went well over 10,000 hours without any serious work.  D-407 was good too.  It shared many design features with the 361.

IH was almost as bad as Ford.  Ford had three different 351's that shared nothing except blue paint,  Windsor, Cleveland, and Modified, and the little FE, 352.  I H had Nuess D-358, D-360, and D-361 and they only shared the red paint.

Ford made a 360 and 361 engine also.q

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1 hour ago, IHRedDrive said:

Appreciate the Ford comment. Thought the Windsor and Cleveland motors were designated build sites not different motors. But what do I know, I'm a Mopar guy lol

Yes, Cleveland engine built in Cleveland, Windsor engine built in Windsor. The Windsor engine was an over-grown 302, in-line valves, about the only difference was the 351 had a different firing order than the 302, but later on High Output 302's used the 351 firing order.

The Cleveland had canted valve heads,  and 4 bbl and Boss heads had Huge valves and ports,  in fact, tuners created several quick and dirty ways to trick the engine into thinking it had smaller ports so it pulled harder at low rpm.  The crankshaft main journals were larger than the Windsor.  The aftermarket created the "Clevor", a Cleveland block that used a Windsor crankshaft,  Drag racers spun Clevelands to almost 10,000 rpm and surface speed in the main bearings caused some problems early on.  The Cleveland was a race engine Ford built to run on the street. The Windsor won the marketing battle because it had cleaner emissions.  It turns out Australia got all the good high performance parts for the Cleveland. You want to build a Cleveland you will probably buy something from Australia.

The Modified 351 and 400's were a decent pickup or station wagon engine. Durable but not for spirited driving. Buddy had a 351M in his '79 Bronco and it pinged bad, rattled like a diesel, burned a lot of gas.  Ford played with cam timing to reduce emissions,  they could run O-K with cam and carb changes and some tuning.

Yes, I forgot about the other baby FE, 360.  Think it was a 352 with .005" oversize bore.  361 was the heavy truck version, same bore/stroke, just forged crankshaft and other improvements for durability.  Same thing with 390 & 391.

Ford even made a Heavy-Duty version of the 300-6 for use in medium duty trucks!  I don't think it got any forged internals, crankshaft or rods. I think it was harder exhaust valves and seats,  different carb. I had two 300-6's in F-150's, both 4-speed creeper low, 3.55 gears, both 4wd. one with Carter YF-1 carb, other first year factory EFI. Carb engine was 120 hp, EFI was rated 140-145 but didn't run any different than the carb'd truck.  I hate to think of either engine in an F-600 or 700 loaded to 25,000-30,000#. Not enough gears available in a medium duty truck to keep up with traffic.

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2 hours ago, IHRedDrive said:

Appreciate the Ford comment. Thought the Windsor and Cleveland motors were designated build sites not different motors. But what do I know, I'm a Mopar guy lol

Nope windsor is an overgrown 302 only thing that will fit that i can remember is the heads tho i think will lower comp ratio if go 351 heads to 302. Clevland totally different. More like a 429 i think but again nothing interchanges. Actually think M motor was a modified clevland tho i would have to read up again to be sure. 360- 361 same basic block but 361 has mods for heavy truck and willl bolt up to same bell housing i think. Lot of parts will interchange any way. And the edsel 361 or what ever it was is again same basic block and many parts will interchange.

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On 9/9/2017 at 10:48 AM, DOCTOR EVIL said:

Yes, Cleveland engine built in Cleveland, Windsor engine built in Windsor. The Windsor engine was an over-grown 302, in-line valves, about the only difference was the 351 had a different firing order than the 302, but later on High Output 302's used the 351 firing order.

The Cleveland had canted valve heads,  and 4 bbl and Boss heads had Huge valves and ports,  in fact, tuners created several quick and dirty ways to trick the engine into thinking it had smaller ports so it pulled harder at low rpm.  The crankshaft main journals were larger than the Windsor.  The aftermarket created the "Clevor", a Cleveland block that used a Windsor crankshaft,  Drag racers spun Clevelands to almost 10,000 rpm and surface speed in the main bearings caused some problems early on.  The Cleveland was a race engine Ford built to run on the street. The Windsor won the marketing battle because it had cleaner emissions.  It turns out Australia got all the good high performance parts for the Cleveland. You want to build a Cleveland you will probably buy something from Australia.

The Modified 351 and 400's were a decent pickup or station wagon engine. Durable but not for spirited driving. Buddy had a 351M in his '79 Bronco and it pinged bad, rattled like a diesel, burned a lot of gas.  Ford played with cam timing to reduce emissions,  they could run O-K with cam and carb changes and some tuning.

Yes, I forgot about the other baby FE, 360.  Think it was a 352 with .005" oversize bore.  361 was the heavy truck version, same bore/stroke, just forged crankshaft and other improvements for durability.  Same thing with 390 & 391.

Ford even made a Heavy-Duty version of the 300-6 for use in medium duty trucks!  I don't think it got any forged internals, crankshaft or rods. I think it was harder exhaust valves and seats,  different carb. I had two 300-6's in F-150's, both 4-speed creeper low, 3.55 gears, both 4wd. one with Carter YF-1 carb, other first year factory EFI. Carb engine was 120 hp, EFI was rated 140-145 but didn't run any different than the carb'd truck.  I hate to think of either engine in an F-600 or 700 loaded to 25,000-30,000#. Not enough gears available in a medium duty truck to keep up with traffic.

Thanks Doc for the background. Had no idea!

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