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M&W 9 speed with PTO

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There is a Cub Cadet on Facebook advertised as having an M & W 9 speed transmission & a PTO. Is this factory?

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Factory PTO is , but smaller than 540 standard shaft. Available  on gear  drive Cadets.  I think m & w 9 speed  was available. Factory option was Creeper for gear drives, to make 3 speed a 6 speed. 

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6 hours ago, Rainman said:

Factory PTO is , but smaller than 540 standard shaft. Available  on gear  drive Cadets.  I think m & w 9 speed  was available. Factory option was Creeper for gear drives, to make 3 speed a 6 speed. 

I thought I read on a forum, not IHCC.com, in a post by Bill DeTurk that M&W only made 50 or 100 9-speeds for original CC'S.  They only worked on 1961 to '63 Originals.

I doubt very many if any CC'S of any vintage were built with the rear pto at LVL.  I bet most were dealer installed, or customer installed.  Since it had an oddball spline, non-standard shaft diameter, and turned backwards from ASAE standards it wasn't real useful unless you bought the Hub City adapter that is even more rare and expensive than the pto.

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The rear pto was not rare. The cheap Farmers would buy a cub cadet with rear PTO then gear their elevator to work with  the reverse PTO instead of buying the gear box. I know of several cub cadets with  hub city gear boxes on them locally. Farmer  had the cub cadet so they figured it was cheaper to buy the gear box than to buy several  motors just to run their elevators. Run elevator all day then mow yard that night. I remember cub cadet advertising that.

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10 hours ago, RKO said:

The rear pto was not rare. The cheap Farmers would buy a cub cadet with rear PTO then gear their elevator to work with  the reverse PTO instead of buying the gear box. I know of several cub cadets with  hub city gear boxes on them locally. Farmer  had the cub cadet so they figured it was cheaper to buy the gear box than to buy several  motors just to run their elevators. Run elevator all day then mow yard that night. I remember cub cadet advertising that.

But you could buy a nice running H for less than the Hub City gearbox cost.  That's what Dad found out!

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14 hours ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

But you could buy a nice running H for less than the Hub City gearbox cost.  That's what Dad found out!

They didn't cost that much when they first came out. I have some dealer price sheets someplace. I will find them sometime.  I fixed a hub city gear box for a cub about 2000 and at that time a new one was still advailable. If I remember they were about a 1000 dollars at that time. There was About a dozen different boxes advailable for a cub. Two directions on out put. Different ratios. And different out put shafts. 

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On 8/15/2017 at 10:34 PM, RKO said:

They didn't cost that much when they first came out. I have some dealer price sheets someplace. I will find them sometime.  I fixed a hub city gear box for a cub about 2000 and at that time a new one was still advailable. If I remember they were about a 1000 dollars at that time. There was About a dozen different boxes advailable for a cub. Two directions on out put. Different ratios. And different out put shafts. 

I saw a lot of running H's sell for $200- $300 back in the 1960's.  M's were always $1000- $1200 depending on options & tires.  Saw a 450 LP with decent paint, good tires, standard drawbar, triple hyd, power steering, LPTO sell for $295 just because it was LP.

Dad hauled in and unloaded all our hay & straw.  Always used the '51 M with loader.  Once the load was spotted at the bale elevator he'd unhook the M and run the elevator with it.  Real hard justifying spending any money on a CC rear pto and a special gearbox when we had 3-4 tractors around that could do the job.

 

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4 hours ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

I saw a lot of running H's sell for $200- $300 back in the 1960's.  M's were always $1000- $1200 depending on options & tires.  Saw a 450 LP with decent paint, good tires, standard drawbar, triple hyd, power steering, LPTO sell for $295 just because it was LP.

Dad hauled in and unloaded all our hay & straw.  Always used the '51 Mcbc with loader.  Once the load was spotted at the bale elevator he'd unhook the M and run the elevator with it.  Real hard justifying spending any money on a CC rear pto and a special gearbox when we had 3-4 tractors around that could do the job.

 

There was very few H Farmalls in this area. The M was a small tractor. But even in the 60s a Farmall H would bring the same as an M around here.

  Most the Cub Cadets with PTO went to Pa. NY. And other states around there. Lots of weekend hobby farmers that just had one tractor. this was a cheap was to have another power unit. On one of the cub cadet forums someone posted numbers were cub cadets were sold. In the 60 Pa. And NY. Dealers sold a big percent of the cubs 

This is a big country and people need a vary greatly. I find it funny some people think just because something is a certain way in there area. Its that way every place 

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3 hours ago, RKO said:

There was very few H Farmalls in this area. The M was a small tractor. But even in the 60s a Farmall H would bring the same as an M around here.

  Most the Cub Cadets with PTO went to Pa. NY. And other states around there. Lots of weekend hobby farmers that just had one tractor. this was a cheap was to have another power unit. On one of the cub cadet forums someone posted numbers were cub cadets were sold. In the 60 Pa. And NY. Dealers sold a big percent of the cubs 

This is a big country and people need a vary greatly. I find it funny some people think just because something is a certain way in there area. Its that way every place 

By the 1960's an M was getting small, it was a chore or planting tractor.  H was too small to much more than mow/rake hay.  Hence the low price. I'm not sure why an H and M would sell for same price, an M is 50% more tractor in every respect, hence the much higher price. So why would somebody spend $500- $700 for a lawn mower and even more for a PTO and special gearbox to run an elevator a couple times a year?  The $200- $300 H seems a lot more cost effective, even if you paid $500 for it. Our first new '63 Cub Cadet original cost $565. It mowed two farmsteads a week. It got traded for a #70 in '65 thats sitting out in my shop now after mowing both farmsteads for 8 years then mowing only one of them 34 more years. Mowing alone justified having it. Farmers saving money is a universal thing,  farmers in Midwest, South, North, far West all were frugal with their money.  Could have traded for a 12 or 14 hp hydro but a 7 hp gear drive got over the yard eventually.

If Cub Cadets sold well out east I bet it was due to more Suburban People out east, not more small farmers buying them. I'd like to see who is saying all these Cub Cadets with PTO were sold out east. IH never made a single attachment that ran off the gear drive pto.  Not a single implement was made by IH or any IH approved short line company to use the rear pto.  I had ALL the approved attachment catalogs.  You had to get the Hub City gearbox to use it at all. A Cub,  A, B, C or newer small tractor makes much more sense for a small farm than a garden tractor.  Doesn't make any difference where your from,  adding all the money for those attachments to run an elevator sounds NUTS to me. I heard of guys trying to rake hay with a Cub Cadet,  would not have worked well on our hills.  A Cub Farmall, maybe, Cub Cadet would just get you hurt getting pushed down a hill.

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Denny   ,   think I've seen a flat belt gear box on a gear drive rear  PTO turning  a grinder of some type.

 

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There were a few Cub Cadets around here that were used to run bale elevators but they were all power off the rear axle. There was a PTO shaft adaptor that bolted on with the wheel studs. Just lift that wheel off the ground and connect the PTO drive shaft. I noticed how the CC was kept in place. I would assume it would have to be tied down some how to keep the other wheel from moving.

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On 8/17/2017 at 10:38 PM, Rainman said:

Denny   ,   think I've seen a flat belt gear box on a gear drive rear  PTO turning  a grinder of some type.

 

That was the belt pulley option off the Cub Farmall wasn't it?  I've seen the same setup used to run an ice cream machine at tractor shows.

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On 8/18/2017 at 3:24 PM, Owen Aaland said:

There were a few Cub Cadets around here that were used to run bale elevators but they were all power off the rear axle. There was a PTO shaft adaptor that bolted on with the wheel studs. Just lift that wheel off the ground and connect the PTO drive shaft. I noticed how the CC was kept in place. I would assume it would have to be tied down some how to keep the other wheel from moving.

There was a firewood splitter, a large screw with spiral threads that bolted on the rear wheel hub like that also.

Most of my seat time on CC's has been on gear drives,  but used to mow with a 129 and used my 982 lots of years.  Problem you have to watch with hydros is them sneeking away when you leave them un-attended for a few minutes, AKA Hydro Creep.  Gear drives are better behaved,  they always stay where you leave them.

They used lots of Cub Cadets at Farmall. Maintenance pulled huge trash bins around with them, 8 ft long 4 ft wide and 4 ft tall with quick-couplers frt & back,  small 4-5 inch steel casters on them.  they could pull 2-3 empties or one heaped to overflowing with trash, used coffee cups, bags, boxes, even broken up pallets.  Some guys would even pull two loaded carts.  And they started with gear drive tractors and clutch and brake problems were common.  they beat on their first 123 hydro and couldn't break it. Everything changed to hydros then.  They ran them hard 8 hours a day, some even 16.  The tires had to be foam filled, the tires were loaded with big steel shavings from the machining depts.  Made for good traction on snow & ice in winter. The maintenance dept. fab shop made rear fender extensions forward from the foot rests to stop splashing water from front tires, and big heavy front bumpers.  They had to run safety sealing gas caps on the gas tanks sticking up thru the hood.  The guy I bought my Cub Cadet 72 from had bought a used CC hydro from Farmall.  He had done some local testing of tractors for Farmall.  They are still proudly an ALL IH/CIH farm.

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