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vtfireman85

Frame rail to bolster bolts, Farmall M

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vtfireman85    0

over the years I've been squirting the bolts that bolt the frame rails to the bolster on my M with loose juice of varying descriptions every time I walk by but I  don't think any of it has soaked in. I tried (half heartedly to put a bar on them a couple times to no avail, I think I even gave them a couple quick shots with the impact. One of them has always been backed out part way, or maybe it's just too long, either way it's got brush paint all over the threads and it's not budging easily, before I paint it this fall I would like to get them out and the thread in the cast cleaned up. I have thought of heating them with acetylene a few cycles in hopes that the expansion and contraction would create a little room but I am afraid if I draw the temper put of the bolts they will just twist off. 

Are there any suggestions for getting them backed out without breaking??

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Matt Kirsch    0

I have had such good luck with welding nuts on broken off bolts, I think I would simply grind the heads off these bolts and do that. Once the frame rail is out of the way there should be plenty of stud there to weld a nut to.

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kracked1    0

^^^ That is how I did mine.  3 out of 4 on each side broke. Welded nuts on and they came right out.

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DOCTOR EVIL    0

When we replaced the rusted out battery box seat base on the SH the big short cap screw heads were rusted into tapered cones.  Sockets and box wrenches didn't work, open ends either.  Vice Gripe wouldn't grab them.  We ripped the sides off the base, flipped a 5 gal. Bucket upside-down on the platform to sit on to drive and ran it over to the shop, welded hexadecimal nuts to the bolt heads and once they cooled a bit turned them all right out.  That blistering heat from welding really loosens rust's grip on things.

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stronger800    0

Have you ever used Kroil penetrant ? I'd get a can of that, let it set a few days, then put a quality socket and 3' bar on them.    If they don't pop loose, then you can get deeper with heat or welding 

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1586 Jeff    0
3 hours ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

When we replaced the rusted out battery box seat base on the SH the big short cap screw heads were rusted into tapered cones.  Sockets and box wrenches didn't work, open ends either.  Vice Gripe wouldn't grab them.  We ripped the sides off the base, flipped a 5 gal. Bucket upside-down on the platform to sit on to drive and ran it over to the shop, welded hexadecimal nuts to the bolt heads and once they cooled a bit turned them all right out.  That blistering heat from welding really loosens rust's grip on things.

What is a hexadecimal nut?

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DOCTOR EVIL    0
20 minutes ago, 1586 Jeff said:

What is a hexadecimal nut?

Hexadecimal Nut would probably be a nut with 16 flats instead of just six, but in this case my Autocorrect bit me in the backside and I didn't catch it.  It really was 6 sided nuts we welded onto the rusted bolts.

I'm seriously thinking about turning that autocorrect off.  Sometimes I have to correct words 3-4 times before it leaves them as I type them.  And like in this case it completely changes words, and the whole meaning of the sentence.

Sorry about the mistake.  I actually laughed when I read your post, and I did have to look it up on Google.

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65806    0

I tried turning auto correct off but then every word was gibberish instead of just a few

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Charlieu    0

A trick that I have learned a long time ago, that when dealing with those bolts in the front bolster is to take a 2 lb hammer and give each bolt a few good licks.  I have been doing this for many years and it works.  give it a try and see for your self, you have nothing the loose. 

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vtfireman85    0
9 hours ago, stronger800 said:

Have you ever used Kroil penetrant ? I'd get a can of that, let it set a few days, then put a quality socket and 3' bar on them.    If they don't pop loose, then you can get deeper with heat or welding 

I swear by kroil , but so far no luck, 

many good suggestions here guys, I'm making the dozen yellow again tomorrow, then maybe Sunday I'll get the M out and see what happens. 

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1586 Jeff    0

Seth,

 

Rattle the bolts with an air hammer for a little while.  If that doesn't get them loose then put the heat to them with a welder.  Think about electricity will ya?   Where will the poorest connection be?  Where the rust is.  And what do poor electrical connections make?  Heat.  Place your ground on the casting and electrode to the bolt.  Get the bolt HOT.  Then walk away until it is stone cold.  A few shots of your favorite loosening lubricant and SLOWLY work the bolts free.  It should not take very much effort.

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stronger800    0

Big open end wrench, with a second wrench locked on the end of it, then smack the bolt head  with the big hammer while leaning on the wrench.   Like an impact, but possibly more powerful unless you have a really stout gun. 

On bolts that are unlikely to break off, I usually try brute force and Kroil before firing up the torch/welder 

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vtfireman85    0

I think if I had any hope of getting penetrant to them I'd have to burn the paint out, someone did a brush paint job and really gummed it in there

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Willie B    0

VT Fireman;

I am your father.

Heat the bolt heads, Heat them repeatedly. As they cool, use penetrant. If the heads snap off, likely they will, Offer a big washer, and weld through it. As it comes flush, weld on a big nut. Allow to cool each round before trying to use a wrench. It might take several rounds of this.

There have been maintenance rods available specifically for this application. The claim is that the flux protects the female thread.

 

Willie

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1586 Jeff    0
1 hour ago, Willie B said:

VT Fireman;

I am your father.

Heat the bolt heads, Heat them repeatedly. As they cool, use penetrant. If the heads snap off, likely they will, Offer a big washer, and weld through it. As it comes flush, weld on a big nut. Allow to cool each round before trying to use a wrench. It might take several rounds of this.

There have been maintenance rods available specifically for this application. The claim is that the flux protects the female thread.

 

Willie

You sir have my sympathy for having to put up with Seth's antics.  And his brother's.

 

Now if he would just come pick up the lathe from me.......

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Willie B    0

Wait a minute! Is that a small Atlas Lathe? How's next weekend sound?

 

Willie

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1586 Jeff    0
10 hours ago, Willie B said:

Wait a minute! Is that a small Atlas Lathe? How's next weekend sound?

 

Willie

Sounds great!

But he has been saying that since winter.....

 

If one of you will call me to let me know WHEN you are coming that would be great.

 

Any success on the frame rails yet?

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Matt Kirsch    0

I'm intrigued by 1586 Jeff's suggestion about getting the bolt hot with the welder.

Do you just pile up weld on the head, or connect the welder directly to the bolt somehow?

I remember hearing about using a welder to thaw frozen pipes by connecting it at both ends and letting it buzz.

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stronger800    0

I think he's piling up weld, and the heat travels down the bolt, maybe more effectively or intensely than just going at it with a torch? 

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1586 Jeff    0
7 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

I'm intrigued by 1586 Jeff's suggestion about getting the bolt hot with the welder.

Do you just pile up weld on the head, or connect the welder directly to the bolt somehow?

I remember hearing about using a welder to thaw frozen pipes by connecting it at both ends and letting it buzz.

Become a "lousy" weldor and "stick" the electrode to the bolt.  Strike a decent arc to start with, but hold the electrode to the bolt until m arc is quenched.  Then let the electricity do the work.   I would definitely used a rod so that it can get arced to save arcing the jaws of the electrode holder.  Rods are cheap in comparison!  The Lincoln buzz boxes have a circle around the number 75.  That is where they were rated for 100% duty cycle and could be left on to thaw pipes.   Today I would be QUITE concerned about doing that due to the sensitivity of modern electronics.

But heating a bolt on an M?  As Old Tanker Rick would say, "It's just an M."

And me teasing VT Fireman Seth about electrical connections?   Well his family has an electrician business.......

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Willie B    0

I believe this is a great idea. Be aware that some welders may not survive this practice. Most welders have a thermal overload built into the circuitry. Big, or older, or most bigger modern welders US built will handle it. I'd avoid the practice if all you have is a Chinese machine. Any welder I ever owned will ignite the rod up to 1/8" and it'll burn off like a light bulb with broken glass.

Willie

In an earlier day I thawed frozen underground water pipes with a Twentieth Century 295 Amp AC welder Circa 1974 with 100% duty cycle. The high resistance of galvanized steel water pipe limited current in the welder. It worked very well.

In 1995 the Municipal water system, (200 customers) was rebuilt. Now it's plastic main line, copper branches across the road, and galvanized across lawns, to houses. Electricity doesn't even warm the K copper, but melts the couplings where the low bid contractor attached copper to galv.

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