CL-Judge-TD9

Injector pump rebuild help

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Can't say how much I appreciate the knowledge located on this board... thank you all for sharing.

I have a TD-9 that has been sitting for a very long time (something like 10+ years). It was given to me by my neighbor that wanted to scrap it, but I couldn't let that happen and besides, I can use it on my 5 acres in southern Oregon. Anyway, I did get it started on gas and had fun driving it around a bit... (yes, cheap thrills for a new guy...). It would not switch over no matter what I DID. There was fuel coming out of the bleeders from the injectors but what I noticed was that although it squirted, it was not very strong. Short story, I figured it was the fuel pump, so I took it off... Damn is that thing heavy!!!

So thanks to previous posts I have been able to dig into it cautiously and sure enough the rack was jammed and there was a lot of gum in it. One thing is that I found fuel in the oil section of the pump and I really don't know what causes it... any comments or ideas on that?

I did find a partial rebuild gasket kit but they wanted $270.00 which I don't have... so I am building/cutting my own gaskets.

Thanks all...

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CL

     Welcome to the forum.    If you will look in the construction equipment section, there should be an old post that has a lot of pictures of this type of injection pump being repaired.  Hope you can find it and it should help you a lot.

GT&T

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Yes, thank you.... I did find the posts you are talking about but there is no mention on how to get the scavenger valve out.... do you grab the threads with pliers and give it a hard pull? Not to keen on that because it would or might ruin the threads. Do I make some sort of tool to thread onto the top part and pull it out? Also, I have not found anything so far in my searches on what is causing the fuel to get into the pump oil. Will keep looking though.

Thank you

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CL

     If the shaft seal is leaking on the supply pump or scavenge pump the fuel will leak into the oil reservoir for the camshaft.  A worn injection pump plunger or plungers will allow fuel to leak in the reservoir also.

GT&T

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Does anybody have a parts breakdown of the Injector pump for the 'B' model so I can find a part number for the seals mentioned?

Gary

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what I did was to use the dimension's of the seal like .250"shaft size x .625" outside diameter x .315" thickness and google it or go to some place like Motion Industries, or Applied Industrial technology's or some other bearing house and they can cross reference that to a good seal number and freezer bags and sandwich bags make good gasket material for the thin gaskets others are made from gasket material from the auto parts store russ

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On ‎7‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 2:18 AM, russ said:

what I did was to use the dimension's of the seal like .250"shaft size x .625" outside diameter x .315" thickness and google it or go to some place like Motion Industries, or Applied Industrial technology's or some other bearing house and they can cross reference that to a good seal number and freezer bags and sandwich bags make good gasket material for the thin gaskets others are made from gasket material from the auto parts store russ

Thank you, what I did was to get gasket material from the auto store and made the gaskets. I am now trying to figure out how to set the timing when I put it back on the dozer. I need to find a good breakdown book or repair manual...

I have set up a test bench to test the pump and verify that it is working properly then back into the dozer it goes...

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ok, so the test didn't go so well... I was using hydraulic fluid instead of diesel and was getting a lot of air being put into the fluid before it got to the injectors.  So now I am going to use diesel to see if that was the issue. Went back into the primary pump and made sure that it was put back together correctly. Since I don't have a book I am not exactly sure as to what that is... but I did take pictures and lay out the parts when I removed it and took it apart. At least the fluid is no longer leaking into the main injuctor pump as it was doing previously. So I am making progress.

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What was the part number of the parts book ??  Would love to see some pics of your test bench :)

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The books that I GOT WERE LISTED AS #1011492 WHICH IS THE OPERATING MANUAL, and PU-40D which is the parts breakdown of the Injector pump.

I set up the test using diesel and connected a power drill to spin the pump. When the pump started to spin it drew up the fuel properly but then pushed aerated fuel with microbubbles into the primary pump section. You can see the bubbles in the line in the third picture. I pulled the scavenger valve out and cleaned it up as it was stuck, I didn't have a proper seal for it so I used an 'O' ring... do you think that might be the problem? I didn't completely dismantle the pump, but I did remove the side aux pump and clean it, the scavenger valve, and the primary pump on the top. With the aux pump on the side, I have tried several different gasket thicknesses where it goes intot he body of the IP with no change. Oh yes, it also pushes fuel out of the return back into the bucket... I assume that is coming from the scavenger valve. The last item is that the section of the IP where it is supposed to have oil is getting flooded with fuel as well...

Any thoughts?

I am about to give up and park it.

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did you remove the supply pump from the main pump body and replace the small shaft seal as it is probably hard and quite worn and will force fuel into the pump crankcase around the shaft russ

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I ended sending the aux pump with the dist. block and primary pump section out to be looked at and tested. After it came back and was installed I was able to get it started up on diesel... the next problem is that there is no power at all.

I did notice that I am getting some flame shooting out of the exhaust...

When I installed the injector pump, I couldn't figure out how to make sure that the gears were in alignment properly... there was not any set marks on the gears to match up.  When I took it apart I tried to be not to disturb the alignment of the gears. So I set the crank (T)DC and then the hub indicator for the pump gear at "0" ...  It did belch out black smoke and started right up on diesel when I did the switch over. At this point I don'[t know if the pump timing should be advanced or retarded.

I was also very careful to try to make sure that there was no air in any of the lines... After it was running for a while, I opened the bleeder valves on each injector to make sure it was air free. That was how I figured which cyl was firing or not. Cyl's 3 & 4 were firing but not 1 & 2... When I open the bleeder valve on 1 & 2 there is fuel that shoots out. The tech that worked on my fuel pump parts said that he set up the distribution box and it worked fine on his test bench. So I think this would eliminate the issue with the Fuel pump?

I do have all of the books for this model now... but they aren't helping any in this case.

Any thoughts would be appreciated... thank you, Gary

====================================================================

I was very luck in that the hydraulic pump was leaking pressure and oil really bad... Hydreco brand... unfortunately it is so old that there were no parts anywhere. Thankfully I found a good company in Calif that was able to find me the parts I needed (the seal for the shaft cost $275.00 )... and bearings at $18.00 @. Anyway, that fixed the hydraulic leak problem... a new H pump would have run around $1500 plus.

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UPDATE:

Checked the compression of the #1 Cyl, in gas mode it was over 100 psi, swapped the injector on 1 and 3 and that didn't make any difference. starts and runs on cyl's 3 and 4... but will not fire on 1 and 2... I have run out of ideas.

could this be the pump timing is off?

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Crack the nut on the fuel lines at the injector to bleed them. But also does the volume of fuel seam equal?

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1 hour ago, waterloo said:

Crack the nut on the fuel lines at the injector to bleed them. But also does the volume of fuel seam equal?

Just open the diesel throttle when it is running on petrol to bleed it.  That won't let you look at volume though.

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I did get it bled, I am of the opinion that the issue is that the timing is off. Does anybody know how to set the Gears alignment that powers the pump? There are no matching marks to align the gears together, it could be up to 2 teeth off in either direction.

Now, when I put the pump back on, the hub on the pump has an alignment mark that is supposed to line up with another mark on the drive gear. That mark was about 1/2 inch rotation off, so I had to rotate it clockwise about 1/2 inch then hold it there to get the bolts on. My thoughts on this is that was my first indication that the gear alignment was off.

My thoughts: what if I remove the pump and rotate the pump drive gear so that when I install the pump the lines line up... ??? Having set the crank to DC (TDC) to get the gears in alignment with the piston stroke.

Or does somebody have a better idea as to how I can get or verify the pump drive gear is properly aligned without removing the whole front of the bull-dozer? (see picture of it above, that is a lot of hardware to remove...).

Opinions or thoughts?

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When I rebuilt my td9. I thought I had timing issues as it would not fire/start, pulled the front off, turned crank to align marks, seemed they wouldn't line up ever turn, or second turn, or third, but was definitely timed right, manual specifies the marks and teeth between for different models, let me know if you need pics or more info. Through me for a loop for quite awhile

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Would you happen to have a picture of the whole Injector pump gear as it looks when it is aligned?

Thank you

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On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 10:22 PM, td9inidaho said:

When I rebuilt my td9. I thought I had timing issues as it would not fire/start, pulled the front off, turned crank to align marks, seemed they wouldn't line up ever turn, or second turn, or third, but was definitely timed right, manual specifies the marks and teeth between for different models, let me know if you need pics or more info. Through me for a loop for quite awhile

Did you ever figure it out? I believe that because of the tooth ratio, it will take 4 full turns of the crank for the alignment marks to come back up into alignment.

 

I tested the compression of the cylinders through the spark plug holes with the gas/diesel lever open and closed. In theory my readings should have been pressure on the diesel on... Gas off... and no pressure Diesel off/gas on setting.... this proved correct for all cyl's except #1 in which there is no change. So it appears that the valve for #1 cyl is not closing when switched to diesel which then does not provide the high compression needed to fire the fuel. So that now looks like I will have to remove the head and fix it... Ugh!!!!

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1 hour ago, CL-Judge-TD9 said:

So it appears that the valve for #1 cyl is not closing when switched to diesel which then does not provide the high compression needed to fire the fuel. So that now looks like I will have to remove the head and fix it... Ugh!!!!

Before you reach for the spanners.  IIRC there have been posts that deal with this without removing the head.  Maybe someone will chime in.

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That would be great news if somebody would pitch in on the subject... I think I will start a new thread specifically for troubleshooting the issues...

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I would work at it from the top end. Maybe you can get vise grips on the end of the valve and turn back and forth to free it. Remove the spark plug and see if you can get some of your favourite release er on it too.

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If you think the starting valve on #1 cylinder is not closing, you can check to see if it is stuck by removing the valve cover. There is a cup type piece above each starting valve that gets pushed down onto the starting valve to open it when you are in gas mode.

When in diesel mode, the cups  should be free from any pressure, and a spring under the cup pushes the starting valve up to close it.. 

These cups, or moving parts under them, can be stuck, and even though there is nothing pushing  or holding them down, they don't move back up under the spring pressure, and your starting valve stays open when it should be closed .. 

With the valve cover off, and the engine in diesel mode, you should be able to put some gentle pressure on the cup with a pry bar or large screw driver. It should move down, if it does the starting valve is closed and is opening properly. If there is no movement under some applied pressure, it is likely stuck. You can also do a visual check of the cups to see if they are all sitting at the same height. If one is lower than the others in diesel mode it is likely stuck open. 

If it is stuck, you can likely get it to release with some good penetrating fluid or ATF/acetone mix, and some gentle tapping on the cup. I would suggest a wood dowel as a punch if you need to get more aggressive .. 

Good luck .. 

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