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Stevetd9

Td91

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Hi i have a td9 drott gas start then diesel for running, i bort it with motor rebuilt ready to go apparently, problem is i have no oil pressure, i have tried priming it by pumping oil in the galleries from side of block and still no good, with sump off i notice all the pumped oil is just dumping straight back in to sump via a machined vertical sleeve in the side of the block where oil galleries run into, on the outside there looks to be a Welsh plug at the top, it's about 40mm diameter sleeve, is the bottom of this sleeve sposed to be plugged with something?? It's rite next to the dip stick, does anybody know about this?? 

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Is that "sleeve" the relief valve and the spring has been omitted?

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I'm notsure mate,what it is that's what I'm tryingto work out, is there sposed to be something in there? Also there is 2 threads that go into it from the outside of the block which I think the oil pressure Line or gauge goes to, does that valve pull out or slide in?

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From your description of the hole (40 mm) it sounds like where the oil pump should be which extends up in a hole like you describe and runs off a gear on the camshaft. This hole would/could be capped off on top with a welch plug and joins up with the oil galley. Could be a dumb question, but is there an oil pump installed?  Been a very long time since I looked up inside a TD9 engine.  What does your parts book show in that area?

Maybe someone else has an idea.

Dennis

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try posting this on the construction equipment forum here you'll probably get more exposer there. I've rebuilt several of these engines but caint remember the area in question with any great detail russ  

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23 hours ago, farmalldr said:

From your description of the hole (40 mm) it sounds like where the oil pump should be which extends up in a hole like you describe and runs off a gear on the camshaft. This hole would/could be capped off on top with a welch plug and joins up with the oil galley. Could be a dumb question, but is there an oil pump installed?  Been a very long time since I looked up inside a TD9 engine.  What does your parts book show in that area?

Maybe someone else has an idea.

Dennis

The oil pump is there Right in bottom of sump run's of the big gear on the crank,then there is a line running up to the galleries then in run's into that chamber I'm talking about in the block and oil just run's straight black in to sump, it's like if it was plugged it would be fine ,just need a pic of in side a block to see what's ment to be there

 

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2 hours ago, Stevetd9 said:

ust need a pic of in side a block to see

Pictures of the area might help us help you , Someone may see and it will jog their memory

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Steve, sorry I am not familiar with what you have there.  I don't recall any IH engines of that vintage that had oil pump running off of the crankshaft.  You have us curious now.  My service book that covers TD9, (not 91 series) does not show anything like you describe.  Like Kevin said, pics may help.  

Dennis 

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This PIC of the motor I have and you can see the bung on the outside of block an on the inside it's unplugged and all oil is dumping straight back into sump

 

IMG_20170317_133407.jpg

IMG_20170317_133353.jpg

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On 17/03/2017 at 0:15 PM, farmalldr said:

Steve, sorry I am not familiar with what you have there.  I don't recall any IH engines of that vintage that had oil pump running off of the crankshaft.  You have us curious now.  My service book that covers TD9, (not 91 series) does not show anything like you describe.  Like Kevin said, pics may help.  

Dennis 

Did you see the pics mate do you know what that plug is for?

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Steve,  I think that bore was machined in the block for the oil pump drive off the camshaft then the soft plug was inserted to make it a blind bore.  Parts book calls it out as distributor drive plug but I have never seen a distributor there.   Can you post pics from under your sump?  I am curious what you have for an oil pump in there.  

Dennis 

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Hi  From the picture I think the oil filter you have on that engine is a full flow oil filter, the only filters I have had any experience is the bypass filters like the ones on the 600 or 650.  From what I see in the service manual they are quite different in design.  If you machine is a 1956 or newer it might have an engine balancer that was run off of the gear on the crankshaft by the center main.  I have no experience with these I have only seen pictures in manuals  If it is, it will have a different oil pump than an engine in a 600 or 650

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Yes my oil pump runs off the crank and is in bottom if sump , my problems is were that distributor plug is its open at the other end and all the oil is dumping straight out of there, do you think there's ment to be another plug inside?

 

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5 hours ago, farmalldr said:

Steve,  I think that bore was machined in the block for the oil pump drive off the camshaft then the soft plug was inserted to make it a blind bore.  Parts book calls it out as distributor drive plug but I have never seen a distributor there.   Can you post pics from under your sump?  I am curious what you have for an oil pump in there.  

Dennis 

My oil pump runs off the big gear on the crank in bottom of sump, that distributor plug hole runs all the way through to inside the motor and I think that there is a Welch plug missing as all my oil pressure just dumps straight into sump when you try to prime it

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Steve,

According to my parts book on the UD350 and 370 engines they used an oil pump/balancer unit that ran off of a gear mounted next to the center main crank journal.  The oil is transmitted to the block with a tube and oil transfer housing.  The oil transfer housing looks like the end of an older UD/TD-9 oil pump and fits up into the block just below the welsh plug you mention.  I will scan an post a picture tomorrow morning.

Redwood

 

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Here is a picture of the hole, yes mine has the pump running off crank with a small oil line running to oil galleries, can that old distributor hole be plugged like the top??

IMG_20170320_115340.jpg

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43 minutes ago, Redwood said:

Steve,

According to my parts book on the UD350 and 370 engines they used an oil pump/balancer unit that ran off of a gear mounted next to the center main crank journal.  The oil is transmitted to the block with a tube and oil transfer housing.  The oil transfer housing looks like the end of an older UD/TD-9 oil pump and fits up into the block just below the welsh plug you mention.  I will scan an post a picture tomorrow morning.

Redwood

 

Does my pump setup also look correct??

IMG_20170320_121726.jpg

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I know nothing about your series of engine, but it sure looks like it is missing a tube that would bolt into the 2 open holes at top of oil pump and then transfer over to where the cam driven oil pump would be. For sure seems like there would at the very least be 2 more bolts in the pump housing unless you removed them for some reason. 

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I think Redwood has it figured out.  I didn't realize that any of those engines had a balancer/oil pump running off the crankshaft..  Sounds like something missing though and Redwood may have the info you need.

Dennis

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Hi  I think cihtech is right.  I don't have a parts manual for that engine but I do have a service manual.  It shows a fitting that bolts on to the oil pump with a pipe going up to another fitting.  All those parts start with the word transfer (housing, pipe etc)  It looks to me what the service manual calls transfer housing fits into the block where the regular oil pump would go.  The other line that is in the picture is called a pressure line.  So if you didn't take anything off of the oil pump, I think you are missing some pieces.  I don't have a scanner.  Good Luck.

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1 hour ago, CIHTECH said:

I know nothing about your series of engine, but it sure looks like it is missing a tube that would bolt into the 2 open holes at top of oil pump and then transfer over to where the cam driven oil pump would be. For sure seems like there would at the very least be 2 more bolts in the pump housing unless you removed them for some reason. 

I haven't moved any bolts so there is basically 2 oil pumps in motor?

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Hi  No there are not 2 oil pumps in the engine.  There are 2 types of oil pumps, one is for the tractor engine in the SWD9,600 and 650, and the other type is for the balanced engine like you have.  Some time ago I did some research and the blocks have the same part number for the balanced and non balanced engine.  I think that transfer line goes into the same spot as the oil pump for a non balanced engine.  The oil out put from an oil pump in an non balance engine fits into the oil galleries in the block.  The piece the service manual calls the transfer housing fits into the same spot in the block  ( I think)  If that oil transfer pipe is missing that engine will not have oil pressure.

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Yes I have no oil pressure cos all the oil is dumping out where the oil transfer pipe goes, Im obviously missing parts,  am I sposed to have that small high pressure line that goes to the galleries plus the bigger transfer line?

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Steve,

Attached is the parts breakdown that I promised.  It appears from your photos that you are missing items 1, 3, 4, & 5.  Hope this helps.

Redwood

EPSON016.JPG

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