Mountain Heritage

496 non-rockflex discs

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Just wondering if anyone who has this model has had issues with them? Good/bad, things you hate or wish they had? Bearing issues, too light of a frame, hydraulic issues, etc. Looking at an 18ft set for my 3688 that seem to be in decent shape? Waiting on the guy to get back to me with his asking price. If I figure out at 6hp/ft of disc that comes up to 108hp, 3688 rated at 99hp on drawbar. Am I pushing the limit of the tractor too much with this size disc? Only a 2wd tractor with duals (not much tread on duals). Clay/loam to sandy/loam soils, some tile drained, other sections are not. No hills in our area.

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I have a 496 28ft I haven't had any issues other than previous owner didn't care for it.only hyd issue I have at time is cylinders need to be rephrased which is no big deal just hold hyd handle to the lift position and hold it other than that there a gd disc much better than previous models. friend of mine has same disc as your looking at and pulls it with a 3688 but we are in very sandy soil (tobacco sand)

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Most people here use a 1086 or more on a 19" 496.Like vmax said after a while the wings will start to droop and you need to rephase the hydraulics. The rock flex models had bearing issues, rigid gang not so much.

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Limit your depth to about 4 inches and you should be OK. Just hope you don't have any stones like we do. In my area that disk goes cheap while a good rock flex will still bring almost $20,000

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mine is a rock flex and the bearings hold up well

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These discussions on how big a disk you can pull really depend on where you live and what you are trying to do. Here in Southern MN my Dad used to say buy a field cultivator small enough so you could pull it 6mph incorporating chemicals and a disk big enough so hired help can't pull it too deep at 5 mph.

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mine is a rock flex and the bearings hold up well

A guy I know had one and he had to replace almost all the brackets that hold the bearings and use the rigid gang parts. Maybe not so much bearing trouble but the housings and brackets were bad from new.

Hardly any rock flex discs here.

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So just wonder, which model is more desirable- 496 or 3900?  Why?

seems the rush is on and things are being marked sold quicker than I can get to have a look at them!  Does anyone have issues with the "x" folding arms on a 496?  Do they get loose after a while and cause problems?  Just seems so cumbersome??  Do the pivot pins wear out on them?

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Had two 496's 25' never an issue with them at all. Used neighbors 3900 and was less than impressed.

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We've got one with a mounted harrow too. The main frame likes to crack right behind the lift wheels. Our x folding arms needs worked over as they are getting really loose and will hit each other once in a while. I'd say it's just like any other piece of equipment if it's got moving parts check them out. 

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1 hour ago, jass1660 said:

Had two 496's 25' never an issue with them at all. Used neighbors 3900 and was less than impressed.

What did you not like about the 3900 vs the 496?

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I pull a 20' disk behind a 120hp tractor, no problem, on flat black IL dirt.   Tried to use it on the 806 (100hp)---Not quite!    So it really depends on your soil.  I'd say a 18' disk on a 100hp tractor would be OK--although you may need to not run too deep.

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What you guys finding as the biggest wear and tear parts on the 496 & 3900 discs?  Other than the bearings and the discs - that is a given!  You find bushings or pins on them wearing out?  How do they trail on the road behind the tractor?  They have a long enough tongue when running with duals that you can still turn decent.  

And the big can of worms.....opinions on harrows/buster bars/rolling harrows on the back of the disc.  Worth the money, time to install, or the bother??  Or would you remove them if it came with them?  Bear in mind, I am using this disc for primary finish work.  Might be used to work bean or wheat ground in the fall once before winter - but we moldboard plow still, so that's our normal tillage too for fall.  May some day get an off-set disc for bean ground in fall, but for now - this would be my only disc.

There MUST be more of you's who own these model discs??

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Had 19ft 496 for several years, did a good job after I bolted two wheel weights to the wings. IMHO the wings on these discs are not heavy enough until you get to 22ft and above when running in heavy corn residue.

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30 minutes ago, bkorth said:

Had 19ft 496 for several years, did a good job after I bolted two wheel weights to the wings. IMHO the wings on these discs are not heavy enough until you get to 22ft and above when running in heavy corn residue.

Good to know!!  What tractor you use on your 496?  You have heavy ground?

 

Anyone have a cultivator tine in the center of the frame to cut up that strip of dirt left behind?  Are they worth having or more of a problem dragging around corn stalks?

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The 3900 just didn't seem to cut into the corn stalks very well although it should have as it is identical to the 496 as almost every part has the same part number. The wings didn't want to run level either although it was the neighbors and it may have needed a cylinder rebuilt.

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So from what you can tell the two models are basically the same with exception of the obvious difference in the way the wings fold up (X arms vs just two cylinders directly to the wings from main frame)?

I didn't realize that - I thought they made more changes between the two models???

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Silty clay loan soil, 200bpa +. Pulled it with a 7110 or 1066 with no problem in hills and I should clarify that I meant two wheel weights per side.

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Well sir...interesting!!!

3 minutes ago, bkorth said:

Silty clay loan soil, 200bpa +. Pulled it with a 7110 or 1066 with no problem in hills and I should clarify that I meant two wheel weights per side.

 

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33 minutes ago, Mountain Heritage said:

So from what you can tell the two models are basically the same with exception of the obvious difference in the way the wings fold up (X arms vs just two cylinders directly to the wings from main frame)?

I didn't realize that - I thought they made more changes between the two models???

From what I could tell.

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On 3/26/2016 at 2:56 AM, Mountain Heritage said:

Just wondering if anyone who has this model has had issues with them? Good/bad, things you hate or wish they had? Bearing issues, too light of a frame, hydraulic issues, etc. Looking at an 18ft set for my 3688 that seem to be in decent shape? Waiting on the guy to get back to me with his asking price. If I figure out at 6hp/ft of disc that comes up to 108hp, 3688 rated at 99hp on drawbar. Am I pushing the limit of the tractor too much with this size disc? Only a 2wd tractor with duals (not much tread on duals). Clay/loam to sandy/loam soils, some tile drained, other sections are not. No hills in our area.

post-43178-0-24330100-1458986139_thumb.j

6hp per ft....my 230 hp 8930 and 235 hp 7140 run  warm pulling my 22' 475 and unferverth rolling harrow at 6.3mph on most fresh plowed fields.  Not in any way could I pull a 38'.  But on a unplowed field, like post harvest silage, the 118hp McCormick mfd will pull it, no harrow, very nicely.  All depends on your land.  

What's rephasing?  

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I've pulled our 18ft 475 disk with a 966 that's had the screws put to it. It was enough. 

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The 3900 disc was probably the biggest failure of a red product since the Case/IH merger in my area(with the MXM tractors a close second). Those discs kept our shop busy for not one, but two winters updating them. They were really a disappointment after the 496 was such a successful disc that were loved by everybody. All of the models we sold were the rock-flex discs.

It started with the redesign of the bearings and bearing standards on the 3900-CaseIH called the design "Cushion Gang II". The bearings looked considerably bigger than the ones used previously on the 496, but they failed miserably. We probably sold 20-30 of those discs, many were the 33' models. You couldn't run a 3900 an entire day without having to stop and replace at least one bearing-couldn't be done. Several of them went through more than one bearing in a day's time. We had several people from the Hamilton plant(CaseIH's tillage plant at the time) out to look at these. They were checking bearing standard alignment, tried different bearings, different standard designs, etc., but the problem remained. We used to dedicate one guy in the shop to be available for customers to go out and help with bearing replacement when everyone was using them. Finally after 3-4 years of this, CaseIH came out with a completely redesigned bearing/standard setup that was updated into all of our 3900 tandem discs. This new setup did work well, but really gave CaseIH a black eye with a poor product. In addition to the bearing problem, the 3900 had several other areas that were updated as well. The 6-bolt hubs for the wheels were replaced with 8-bolt hubs, we had several wing frames break that were replaced under warranty, the hitch had some updates as well, the scrapers were updated with a newer design along the way. We had several 3900 discs that had more $$$ in warranty repairs than what the original price of the disc was! IIRC, if you did all the updates to a 3900 you could have over $20K in repairs, while the price of the disc was around $18-19K. Many 3900 owners wanted their 496 trade-ins back, but the 496s we took in trade would be sold immediately due to their good reputation. If you want to look at what a 3900 disc is with all the updates, look at a 3950 disc. What few of those we had around here were pretty good, but they had to fight the generally poor reputation of the 3900.

Fortunately for us, no-till came on strong shortly after the fiasco with the 3900 so most of this became a moot point after a few years, but it really created hard feelings. We had one guy at our shop at this time that was around when IH had to fix all their 560 rearends in the late 1950s-he felt this rework was a bigger public relations nightmare than what the 560 mess was back in its day.

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8 hours ago, TroyDairy said:

 

What's rephasing?  

Troy,

 

Rephasing refers to using two (or more I suppose) hydraulic cylinders in series so that the oil exhausted out of one cylinder will actuate the other cylinder.  Often done on disks, mower conditioners, etc where you want a set of cylinders to extend at the same rate so that an implement will raise and lower evenly.

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