826BB

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    Northwest Ohio
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    4x4s, old trucks, farming and tractors.

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  1. D301 Diesels in '61-68 Light Line Trucks

    March 2018 Issue, which will come out towards the end of January If I find a C-Line diesel T-All, I'm likely to keep it for myself! ( : < )
  2. D301 Diesels in '61-68 Light Line Trucks

    The story is submitted. The tip to Bob was a good one and his truck appears to be some sort of a former test mule. The entire story is sketchy but it looks like it was built, sent to engineering and the diesel was installed. The LST bears some of this out indicating it was a "Sale to Works" deal. Apparently it was tested for some period of time then became a yard hack used to move dead trucks and parts around in Springfield. Did that for a couple of years and then was sold. Before the sale, the diesel was removed and sent back to Melrose Park and a Black Diamond was installed. Uncovered some D301 powered C-Line Travelalls as well. Anyway, this was a very interesting story to do.
  3. Hope you are still around. I am writing a story on the D301 engine for Diesel World magazine  and I ran across your post about the diesel Travelalls going to Denmark. Could you share your source for that so I can backtrack a little more? The beginning production date for the first D301 powered Light Line trucks is not clear. That engine was not a regular option but a special order, so records are difficult to find. 1963 is the earliest I seen. The confirmed years so far are '64-68.  My direct email is <jimallen@bright.net>. Many thanks. Jim Allen

  4. D301 Diesels in '61-68 Light Line Trucks

    Thanks Eason. Yeah, a '62 test mules fits into the theoretical timeline pretty well.
  5. Hey all, Putting the finishing touches on an article in Diesel World on this very elusive option. And, yes, it's for real... and makes IH the first to offer a diesel in a light truck. I found a lot of information on them at WHS, though it was mostly from the very beginning of the process. Because they made it a "Special Feature" rather than a regular production option, you won't see it listed in the normal places like a brochure or a Data Book. No doubt they put out some sort of an announcement to dealers but I haven't found a copy of it yet. The dealers knew how to order them, as evidenced by LSTs from all over the country. The LSTs are pretty normal, but for the engine and a very few changes needed to the truck. There was a supplemental-style parts listing for the unusual parts needed, but really there weren't that many. Since they were putting the engine in the Loadstar, and had offered it in the B-160 and BC-160 in '60-61, and the engine was built around the BD Series architecture, it fit well under the hood of a C-Line truck. I'm just putting out one last shout in case someone has one more little tidbit of information. I've harvested all the low hanging fruit, a a good deal of the upper tier stuff, but this is a pretty eclectic group and may have something more. Below are some specific questions on rumors and unconfirmed information I'd like bunk or debunk: -Supposedly, Scotts (the fertilizer people) ordered a big batch of these trucks at some point. Some of the rumors have this being up to 400 units . - Part two of the above says the Scotts thing happened early in the D-Line era. That is remotely possible since the D301 was still available in the Loadstar in 1969, but that was the last year for it. Another related rumor has the D301 available in '69 Light Line trucks as it was the previous years. While the automotive version of the engine was available in that year (it would be a combine/industrial engine from then on AFAIK), I don't know if it would fit in a D-Line body. The C-Line cab was built the fit the Diamond series engines, so it was an easy fit. Those engines were gone by the time the D-Line trucks came out so it might not have been a good fit. I KNOW IH wouldn't do a low volume option like this unless it was easy-peasy. -The earliest known D301 light trucks are 1964 but I have a nagging suspicion they might have come earlier and I'd like to confirm that (or not, as the facts decree). I know they experimented with installing this engine in B-Series Light Line trucks but the engine wasn't announced as an RPO for the medium duty line until April of 1960 and then was announced as being the base diesel option for the Loadstar late in 1961 ('62 MY). My theory is that the light line diesels could have appeared as early as 1962, but I am sticking with the confirmed by LSTs 1964 number until I know better. -Thus far, I know that they were available in all the pickups. They are confirmed in 1100s and 1200s, long and short wheelbase, regular bed or Bonus Load, or Cab & Chassis. Also, one Travelette has been found. I'd like to know if it was possible to fit the engine in a Travelall? Would there be any reason why an engine that fit in an 1100 or 1200 pickup wouldn't fit in a Travelall? If they would, then it's a least possible that in one of the known four years of production, somebody might have ordered a Travelall diesel (and wouldn't I like to be the lucky SOB that owns it! ( : < ) -I am collecting D301 engine numbers, any application from trucks to combines. Thus far, it looks like the serial numbers on the truck engines (all GVWs) are sequential, the highest being in the 8,000 range. I don't have any combine numbers, nor for the marine applications, industrial (loaders, etc) or stationary power plants. Because the automotive engines had significantly different calibration than an industrial engine, it seems logical that there were different series of this engine and maybe a new set of serial numbers. I'll know once I collect more numbers. -Would like to hear about any other trucks. I have Pat Putnam's two, the one Brendan Barnes sold, Joe Yackley's, Charlie Horton's and Shawn Bailey's, plus a couple of others that were for sale on the web at some points in time.
  6. DTA466B Injection Pump- AMBAC 100 or A-Pump

    I am a bonehead! This engine is mislabeled a DT466. It's actually a DT360, which did commonly have the Bosch A-pump. In talking to a retired IH/Navistar fuel system engineer, he said the A-pump was preferred over the AMBAC 100 in certain applications because it was more tolerant of a dirty environment. He said you generally saw the A-pump most often in construction applications. I guess they didn't consider tractors a "dirty" application, though construction certainly is "dirtier" than farming. Glad I found this before I wrote about it. For those of you that looked and engaged the brain, thanks.
  7. Has anyone seen a Bosch A inline pump on a DTA466B or C in a truck application? See the pic below. To my knowledge the DTA (air to air intercooler, vs the DTI air to water) did not appear until the DT466C era but the main thing is that I have never seen is an A-pump in a truck application. That looks like a truck intercooler. I'm using this image (shot at the National Automotive and Truck Museum) as an example in an upcoming DT466 story in Diesel World magazine and I want to be able to explain some of the (apparent) anomalies. This combo does not show in any truck listing I have, so I wonder if it isn't an ag or construction engine. Everything in the 466A and B truck era had the AMBAC pump, even the DTI466 for CA, and in the DT466C era it was the MW inline Bosch. The A pump was pretty much history by the C era (1983). Since this was a purtyied-up display engine, who know what combo of parts it has. And no, the museum doesn't have any detail on it. The engine and pump numbers have been obscured by the very thick paint. I have also included a closeup of the pump in case it helps. Any clues welcome.
  8. Scout with 152 Turbo engine

    Yeah the last ones went out the door in '67 but they announced the end in October of '66 and tried to get rid of the last engines with "deals." I found a couple of LSTs from '67 with 4-152Ts but those had to have been the last few. They were talking about a turbo engine as early as 1963, likely encouraged by the Corvair Monza. They even developed a fuel injected 4-152 using the old Bendix system as a possible way to increase power. In their quest for power, they actually built a BG-220-powered Scout for testing and when they tried all three, turbo, FI and B-220, and let customers test drive and comment on each, customers liked the BG-220 best and asked for a BD-241 version. Or a V8. They ignored them, of course, and went down the turbo road. Only 1000 kits were ordered initially, but a 500 kit supplemental order happened later. It isn't clear exactly how many were sold. MTC docs mention that some of the kits were destroyed before being installed just to get rid of the headaches. The kit came from Thompson, the same folks that developed the kit for the turbo Corvair Monza. The kits were installed in a special area at the factory. At the time, all engines came from the Indy plant as long blocks. The manifolds and stuff were installed in a basement room in the plant. As Eason said, the turbos were a PITA and warranty nightmare. They made up to 115 hp (from the 152) but they were very peaky and had a bad case of the turbo lags. As with any draw-thru carbureted system, mixture control was difficult and they had trouble with burned valves and melted pistons. They fought the problems for a while, but it was mentioned in some engineering documents that one of the dealers in Denver actually solved the problems and IH took those cues and largely worked the self-destructive bugs out. You were stuck with the quirky performance. The option cost $280 in '65. The 4-196 devopment was finally cleared March of 1965 as the 392 was finished and that engine developed the same power as the turbo, but more reliably and less quirkily. By then, of course, IH was hershey squirting over the Bronco V8 so eventually, they had to go down the V8 road (kicking and screaming). The only documents I saw that talk about a 196 turbo come near the end, when they were looking at outside engines for the '81 model years and up. The inference is that they were just talking about them. Their main problem was meeting emission regs up ahead and none of the legacy IH engines were capable of that.
  9. Nissan SD diesel engines

    My good friend Eason, you must forgive me when I say that Ill have to see it to believe it! Would love for that to happen because it would be another delicious anomaly in the Scout world. That said: You will forgive me, if I don't hold my breath. I spent many hours tracking the NA to TD transition and looked at thousands of LSTs at WHS from June of '78 to January of '80 and didn't see a single TD with a JGD prefix. Then I followed up a few months back by looking through the Service fiches, which also list the engines installed by type. Same deal. In fact, they only produced '79 MY diesel Scouts to February 28 1979 (JGD38694 was the last one and it went to Biseo) for the 1979 Model year (why, I don't know for sure) and no more for the rest of the '79 model year that I could find. I'm willing to concede I could have missed one, two or even a few in all those searches but I couldn't have missed dozens or hundreds. I am certain enough about my observations that I'd need to have the VIN (I could follow up from that) or see a copy of the LST to be convinced there were '79 MY TDs. Given TD engine number restarted at 00001 andengine #00039 was the first TD engine to be installed, and #00032, the earliest engine number that shows up on paper, that leave only 30-something engine unaccounted for, no doubt some (many) of them being test engines that were installed in mules for testing. I tracked engine numbers from the first installation and while they weren't installed in numerical order, they WERE roughly linear. If anyone had a TD in a '79, it would be a number below 00032 most likely and there wouldn't be very many. Most likely they would be prototypes but given the first few that show up in August are marked as "Pilot Models" or "Master Line" and having read some internal docs on the work in converting them, I just don't think it's very likely there are '79 MY (JGD) with factory TDs. Scouts built in '79, certainly, but not '79 MY. Anyway, I would love to be proven wrong on this because if I did I would learn something interesting. That would be one INTERESTING LST. It might turn out to be a test mule. When trying to track the first diesels in '75, I found some LSTs that showed a gas engine typed in but it was scratched out and a diesel notation written in, so these were obviously test mules.. especially considering they had "ENG DEPT" in the ship-to box. That could be another remote possibility in the case of the one from the show, but I was looking for stuff like that. Might have missed some but it's unlikely any conversions would be anything but test mules. Not to say they couldn't have been sold to an employee and may still exist, but they still wouldn't be anything but a test mule, not a production rig. Anyway, if anyone can find the guy to whom Eason refers, would love to make contact and straighten this out one way or another.
  10. Nissan SD diesel engines

    First off, I'm really glad people are happy with the book. We had a lot of help (including Mr. Pletcher) and very good resources. RE Turbo Diesel '79s: There is a production list that shows a few hundred SD33T in '79, something that has had me and many other thinking there must have been '79s with TDs. Except there wasn't. We looked extensively thru the LST files, as well as the Service Microfiches (the mini LSTs) and you can't find a single '79 MODEL YEAR Scout with a TD listed. BUT since '80 model year production started July 23, 1979, it would be possible to find Scouts that were BUILT in 1979 with TDs, but they aren't '79 MODEL YEAR Scouts. Since production lists can reflect CALENDAR year production or MODEL YEAR production (and that isn't specified in that list I referenced), my logical conclusion is that the list reflects calendar year production. Also, we found the first turbo diesel LST and that engine was installed in August of '79 in KGD11388 with engine #00039. It was marked as a Pilot Model. There were a couple more marked as Master Line or Pilots but but no others for a long while and you don't really see any more TD installations until Sept/Oct, dates which were denoted in some official announcements from July of '79 notifying when the TD's would go into production. You don't see all that many TDs until into 1980. I'd have to go back an look again, but I think that starting in April or May, or so, there wasn't a single gas powered Scout built. The lowest TD engine number I found on LSTs or in the fisches was #00032. I'm kinda surprised there wasn't an active effort to bring diesel Scouts to Oz. Perfect fit there.
  11. Pickups & Scouts with AMC engines.

    Similar Era Engines. Not interested in comparing the V8s to sixes or fours. Engine 4-196E, 1971-72 Engine Type: 4-cyl. slant four, OHV, IH 4-196 Displacement: 196.44 ci Bore and Stroke: 3.88 x 3.656 in. Compression Ratio: 8.10:1 Block and Head Material: cast iron Number of Main Bearings: 5 Engine Weight: 545 lbs. complete/dry Gross HP Rating: 110.8 hp @ 4000 rpm Net HP Rating: 102.7 hp @ 4000 rpm Gross Torque Rating: 180.2 lbs.-ft. @ 2000 rpm Net Torque Rating: 176.1 lbs.-ft @ 2000 rpm Engine 6-258, 1972-73 Engine Type: 6-cyl. OHV, IH 6-258 Displacement: 258.1 Bore and Stroke: 3.75 x 3.895 in. Compression Ratio: 8.00:1 Block and Head Material: cast iron Number of Main Bearings: 7 Engine Weight: 484 lbs. complete/dry Gross HP Rating: 140. hp @ 3800 rpm Net HP Rating: 113 hp @ 4000 rpm Gross Torque Rating: 235 lbs.-ft. @ 1200 rpm Net Torque Rating: 191 lbs.-ft @ 2000 rpm Big bore four-cylinders have inherent balance problems that make them unsuitable for high rpm use. The late Terry Hankins (RIP Terry) and I had some long discussions on the 4-196 and it's balance problem. It wasn't that you couldn't rev them, just that you shouldn't , at least if you want to keep them alive long term. A six, just about any six and especially those with seven man in bearings, is a lot more durable being spun up than a big bore four. If you look at the big bore fours, the Mitsu and the Porsche, to name just two, they used a balance shaft to counter the problem. Granted, the AMC engine was an automobile engine and not a truck power plant but in terms of a 6K GVW Scout, it didn't amount to a hill of beans in terms of longevity. See the attached performance curves. The six has a flatter curve and more down low.
  12. Pickups & Scouts with AMC engines.

    Not me. Nothing against the four.. it was what it was... but the AMC six is smoother, revs higher, gets the same fuel economy and makes more power per cubic inch. Has the potential to make MORE hp when souped up. Equally long lasting. Lighter. Really, it was a great base engine choice for the Scout. Do I now need to watch for little red dots on my chest? ( : < 0) I know you guys are looking at this with your Harvester Red glasses on. I get brand loyalty. Doing what I do, I have had to put that mostly aside and look more objectively so I guess I'll have to beg your indulgence for a differing opinion.
  13. $175,000 Scout on Craigslist

    That is the second time that Scout was for sale. It's Shawnee #2 and it was sold to Don Painter in 1981 by International (via Jim Bostic, former head of the Scout Division). Don turned it around less than a year later. That buyer was either the current owner (he might be deceased but his family has it) or there was one very short term buyer in between. The current owners have been non-responsive. Shawnee #3 also survives in Iowa, though in a more "used" condition and is currently inoperable. We have seen recent pics of it. It's had three owners since being sold by IH. Shawnee #2 and #3 were built the same day in late 1979 (during '80 MY production) and rolled off the line at the same time, nose to tail. They then went to be "Shawnee-ized" probably at the Fort Wayne TSPC, though possibly at Hurst (we don't think so, though). They were sold at the same time in 1981 and were driven by the two new owners, Don Painter and Steve Bostic, back to the Phoenix, Arizona area (they were buddies). They were resold from there. The fate of Shawnee #1is unknown. It was the one for sure built at Hurst (we have a pic) and it was significantly different than #2 or #3. I pick out #1 now because there are a couple of "tells." There was a definite evolution with #1 and we have seen it in several configurations. We don't have an exact build date but I'd guess it was early in '79, with Hurst getting it midyear and taking some months to prototype it. After a ton of research, John and I have serious doubts about the story about one of the Shawnee's being scrapped. We think the original source of the story was mistaken or misinformed. Other reports has one of the Shawnee Scouts stored in Fort Wayne sometime after #2 and #3 were sold. We haven't been able to verify any of them. If there is a collector that owns one of every Hurst, and he has a Shawnee, by process of elimination it has to be #1. If true, boy would I like to find that guy. By the way, if you are interested in this story, Scout Encyclopedia by Jim Allen and John Glancy, published by Octane Press, is soon to debut. If you plan to be at the Red Power Roundup in Wisconsin, find the Octane Press booth and John and I will be there with copies of the book