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About russ_alabama

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    Advanced Member

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    North Alabama
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    Super M Farmall, 544 Farmall, 1066 International

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  1. farmall axle planter sprocket

    Yep, I bet so... I'll try to draw it out today on a white board and send it... I've drawn it a bunch of times, thinking about it. You know, back when we were keen on running with the kubota, before we got to night baling, spraying preservatives, and trying to bale multiple plots at a time... we were just thinking of resolving the issue of the third bale getting hit by the returning arm. We talked about multiple ways, but the thing that would worked fine, seems like, would have been a shoving mechanism on the second bale pushing the first, so that the pare were away from the third bale when valve-actuator was tripped and the arm stood up the bales. Then you have many inches or more distance from the third bale and the arm could come down with leisure, nothing to hit. I kept thinking a short elevator chain run there, and cousin kept thinking a star gear... each case on a hydraulic motor. With 17gpm, you could rob 2-3gpm and have margin to still have 12+ gpm to run the table. But, the whole business of too many things at one time, and width of accumulator on the inline baler, and so on, all makes the standalone operation make sense.
  2. farmall axle planter sprocket

    Also, this is a nice reference on the pick up elevator... guy did his own, and the grapple loader tractor is interesting also...
  3. farmall axle planter sprocket

    An inlet and angle of pickup like this loader would be nice, but only run up to the 36" or so that opi need to run... and it needs to be on the other side of the tractor... that guy stacking has a art to making a tall stack and staying on it...
  4. farmall axle planter sprocket

    That's right... and you'll see in the background of the baler pic I posed the old Henry I have standing back there... it's a kneib brand, but the same deal... we used those for years with a grain truck... so reliable... you can only turn left though... I don't mind harvesting it for the project, as I bought it later, and it ain't one Dad had. But, ground driven is hard, with the table as a caster wheel deal, and those tires on Henry would have to be on the ground where the rear tires of the tractor are, or you'd drag them sideways. And with a 7ft tractor width, that nice opening to the Henry is too wide to go down the two lane roads with. The Steffens pick up is close to what I need, or maybe really more kin to what new hollands bale wagon is... other thing... since I need to run with two points of pulling on the hoelsher, I need to probably use the three point... but I don't have down pressure... so, I have to also tie down to the drawbar to prevent the table from just flipping, maybe I have a three point frame that sits on he drawbar and then gets pinned... and it has the hydraulic plant, and the the two points of contact with the accumulator... to attach to it... it's a puzzle...
  5. farmall axle planter sprocket

    Yep, need a pick up elevator... that's right... that'd be running a chain with teeth up and over, and back thru a slot the arm misses, so that the second bale shoves the first bale and the arm lifts, with no third bale there to push the other two... I'll draw it tomorrow and post it... one or both of those old regulator hay elevator sections I show in the pic will be used for guide and frame, the cut and welded and heavier frame added, along with the cogs and such at the ends and pivot points... Steffens has their accumulator... it's a marvel to watch operate, with chains and levers... but it they have a pickup kit for their accumulator... notice they have very short bush hog style trailing wheels that work like a zero turn mowers front wheels on the pickup... one difference for them is that actually trail behind a baler like a trailer, without casters for the main table wheels... and side to the table axle stubs lets theirs run lower to the ground than my old hoelsher... you could make pro and con arguments on that topic... my cousin says to fix the casters on mine as non moving and trailer tongue it. I'd like to not do so massive a set of mods but what I couldn't carry the accumulator to a square baling area and sell it, if none of this works out. And one could remove the casters and put a long trailer axle under it, except there's stuff under it to hit with an axle across. Funny little puzzle, all this. If I could make my "ground pick up kit" a bolt on, mostly, I could give up later and sell it... or, even if it works well, I could pick up another table in the future, if one went cheap enough, and upgrade to a newer black model with its better casters... also, the pick up on a new holland bale wagon would be wonderful to harvest, but finding a parts one of those would be unusual... cousin has one of these, but I can't have anything off it, as it's as nice as the one in this video below... hose hero a bale that on its side to the side... I need to throw a bale that's flat up and back...
  6. farmall axle planter sprocket

    Here's my accumulator and baler... and that old cultivator frame sitting in front is a bad idea still left sitting around... turned around the brillion floating frame to be there for a floating elevator mount... way too heavy for offset from the three point location. I have some sections from the old little giant elevator to use in the project. Baler has a quarter turn gate on it now, as cousin also has a new holland balewagon. It wants them on the side and it don't matter to me for manual hauling. The old M is just getting to ready for clean up. So much surface rust on it.
  7. farmall axle planter sprocket

    Appreciate the pic on the side dresser sprocket... Those are a great design... just makes you really admire what IH and others were doing back then... an easy mount without a wheel pulled. The more I look at the early stuff, I don't see any necessarily better designed things from recent... just designed for different reasons. Thats a good video on the accumulator. That's just like mine, but set up for a little shorter bales and 15 accumulated. Mines set up for longer bales and 10 at a time. But the baler he's running is a 565 and is 70 strokes a minute on speed... so the arm can be up and back down in just under a second... he's running with a kubota, so 17gpm flow. That's a good match. The 100 on my hesston is where that arm has to be up and back down in near a half second. Bale buncher... I went and looked that up... never saw one of those. Looks like a nice model. I like having the square bales for some regular feeding also. It's still more efficient, especially if you have mangers in a building. Dad did that from the 50s till we went round in he 80s. Then he tore down the hay feeding shed with all the mangers. Hauling hands just don't exist much now. Funny thing is that folks will stop and want to talk to you with a trailer in the field, an hour before dark, half loaded, and want you to stop for that. Nice of them, but 30yrs ago, folks would have stopped to jump in and help get it up. Ha. I have to say, tho, there's two great young neighbor young men that do offer if they come along. I still enjoy it, but the accumulator sure speeds up the gathering. Bunch of folks around here get Maxilator models, made in Atlanta. They are both grapple fork and collector in one. One thing I found back when I was looking at accumulators is that it's real regional on where folks use one versus another. I think the hoelsher is a great model, but I don't have the ideal use case, where non-alfalfa hay, slower balers, higher gpm tractors, larger more navigatable plots, or some combo of those, makes it a better use case for its good design. But if I can still make it work out apart from the baler, accumulating would be a big help long term. Interesting on the w6 pto pump... I never considered chain driving of pto and still having pto available... that'd be a great way, seems like... I once saw a pic of a prince pump that had a shaft extender to drive the pump and have a shaft on further out from there. I think I'm going to be going the hydraulic plant path... and obsessively attempting to think of a second use of the plant that justifies better. ha.
  8. farmall axle planter sprocket

    He's around five years younger than me... I bet that's a interesting field of work... well, that was a big move, but they landed well... lots of folks want in that area, and it's not a bad commute to H'ville. My commute time is nearly double at 1.25-1.5hrs each way. That pay thing is an Alabama deal... I've worked for four electronics companies and they always have issue getting folks with specific skill areas to move to the wages, Alabama aside. Where Atlanta, Raliagh Duram, Dallas, etc, has a big jump. But real estate and taxes are cheap here. Was he in Houston during the storms recently? I never travel and my brother does a lot. He's in Germany, the only American in his wife's home village, near Wiesbaden. Retired military, GS, and contractor. They're in New Zealand on a trip now. I ain't seen over 15 states and will never be out of the country. But brother and I are great friends, talk nearly daily in email, and don't see one another for years at a time. I'm the hobbit of the two.
  9. farmall axle planter sprocket

    DD, I looked again after my sun lunch nap. ... Cleveland is closer to Cullman than I realized... he's an hour or a bit more from me... so, I'm near to Anderson. Tiny spot on the map. Lot smaller than Cleveland... ha... he's got a stop in the highway and a elementary school and grocery. Our elementary closed, our highway don't stop in town, and we have a dollar store and a nice fish restaurant. Used to be mostly a farming and small textiles factories region 30yrs ago. Now, less farming, or mostly a few larger operation folks, and factories shipped out. Alabama ain't too bad a place... more nice old tractors and implements up north and in larger crop regions like yours, I guess, tho. I keep mining Craig's up north in a days driving distance in the farm section. Been getting over the shut down gall bladder removal, so this weekend I'm mowing yard again, but no lifting. Next weekend, I'm back to normal work. Just starting eating normal food... went 6wks on turkey on wheat, three meals a day, zero fats, before removal and a week after... this weekend, I had steak and burgers yesterday and today... man... ... catfish is next. Russ...
  10. farmall axle planter sprocket

    I think you're right... the hydraulic drive seems to make the most sense. Versatile, as you say. Just always comes back around to that. I keep hunting a better path, but it seems best. I read and hear of setting up a hydraulic plant that would do close to 20gpm total that $1800-2000 is expected, buying new. Maybe that plant could be used for other things, don't know. That might be the only use... but I've already got grapple and accumulator. The alfalfa is tremendous feed, but its very needy on the baling side, and somewhat on the spraying of round up side. My cousin has the crop sense that makes it work out. He kept crop farming since childhood and I went off to work and came back later to just cows and hay. The field looks like he maintains it, versus how it would if left to me. I'm in a rural spot of north Alabama, between elk river and Florence, near the TN line, and work over in Huntsville. ... Cleveland would be a nice area to be in... I have friends that live north of here in Cullman and like it a lot. Ton of potatoes grown there. You guys in that delta have the good crop dirt, right? Blackish soil? Bet it's a nice area to see big cotton, beans, and corn operations. Yeah, it's been entertaining work on the square baling, and not a massive amt of it that we make.... dad always had square hay bales bales by neighbors until we went round bale, and then Dad got the first Vermeer round baler, and I'm using his second round baler now, an early serial number 20yr old or so 555xL, 5x5ft baler. My cousin and Dad got on the alfalfa plot on the halves path, and he and I kept it up after Pop passed. He's got a really nice 124 Massey square baler that his uncle bought new, and I was looking for one of those... really nice caught-up ones that were shedded and tight were at about half a new one at forty yrs old... so I got a new 1837 Massey hesston inline 3 yrs ago. Might have got the smallest new holland conventional new, if I had it to do again. 60 strokes a minute and would last my lifetime, same as the inline baler. I really like the inline baler tho, no complaints on it. Either would be fine, as would a nice tight 124 or old new holland or ford. Just getting on the early point since new or rebuild, for a guy that works and commutes 3hrs a day also, was key (to just bale and not repair much). Another cousin in south Alabama is a Vermeer dealer that also makes round baling kits for any baler. You'll see his ads in farm magazines and classifieds where he's standing next to a baler scratching his head as the belts are all out and on the ground. Half price on belting kits, and he's done those since the early 80s. He asked if I was crazy buying a new SQUARE baler... ha... he and his dad put up 30k square bales a yr for dairy and beef, and bought the first model Vermeer round baler that was sold in the u.s., and became a dealer soon after. But, I'm still round baling for main feed source, and using the 700-1000 alfalfa that are my half as a 20+ % protein feed to feed some direct to cows as a taming and luring mechanism, and also to run into a feed mill/mixer with either shell or ear corn and minerals, to make crushed feed for calves. I just got a new to me Gehl MX 125 mixer from the widow of a neighbor that bought it new, and I was running the new holland 355 of Dads up to then. Buying feed makes more sense for a working person with so little time and so little time off. Costs $500 to fill my creep feeder wagon for calves and it's about half that to make feed, buying corn and what I have in hay. I got a jaylor single screw round bale tub grinder last year in our drought to keep from buying hay from early feeding. It's 30yr old probably, with gobs of hours use at a dairy... but is in good shape. Adding liquid protein and water makes instant silage, but you gotta feed it in a day or two to prevent mold from wet feed. Good mid winter feed for while herd, but I'm not set up for using it for just calves. Need my lots worked on for that. We add $0.50 to $1 a bale in preservatives to alfalfa (haypro II, acidic acid and proponic acid, to inhibit mold and heat formed from yeast), sprayed in the throat of the baler when baling. But the hay is worth so much more as the leaves are intact, encased, green, and will be months later on the inside of a bale. Plus no heat means no barn burning fears. I don't have but about a hundred head, half in brood cows, but want to be back to 2x that at the point of job going away. And I thought of the square baler and accumulator that I could always put in a 10-20 acre Bermuda grass plot and put up a bunch of hay in a ground level shed for selling to horse folks... when the job is gone, of course. Cousin hates Bermuda for the needy nature of constant weed spraying, and Bermuda people hate alfalfa for the needy baling... and it still needs some spraying too. But, when the job is gone, I'd have time to make another income job and use of baler and accumulator.
  11. farmall axle planter sprocket

    I should mention that, while the hoelsher accumulator needs a 12gpm bare minimum to operate with a conventional 60strokes/minute baler (and minimum of 17gpm for a 100strokes/minute baler), it's not about any existing hydraulic motors in its system... it's just cylinders and valves, with that flow going thru the system... and, aside of the occasional valve and cylinder operation for a few seconds on the stand the bales up arm cylinder to several seconds for the whole table tilt cylinder, rest of the time, you just have the tractor send and return on one remote tied off as flowing constant... unloaded apart from restrictions of lines and open center valving... so the baler bales come out, first pushed by the second thats pushed by the third... first bale finally trips a valve actuator and the valve is opened, standing bales one and two up, hitting another valve actuator to return the arm down, BUT, must do so so fast that it's up, done, and back down by the time another stroke on the baler occurs (as bale number three is coming, and the arm barely misses it when things are good).... first two stood up bales get shoved over by next two when this repeats... as the last two of ten bales are up in the table, another actuator operates a valve to tilt the table and put out ten bales grouped to be grapple fork grabbed and loaded by the tractor later. It all works great, but for my 100strokes/min baler. You want to lower the pto speed but you lower the gpm of the tractor when you do... you find a sweet spot that kinda works ok, which was 450-500rpm of pto speed... down from 2200rpm engine speed to like 1800 or so, I think... been a while since I tried to run it... two years ago, I guess... Nauss makes a kit to help the arm and I have that... they're extremely helpful in talking about the issue, as it comes up with the later balers... subject of a Deere with over 20gpm and attenuators to dial it back down to running good and not rough on the arm comes up... by that time, we were seeing that too many things, with alfalfa window of time of correct dew and encasing of leaves baling, preservative spraying, and tight plots separated by 4mi of fast road travel at night, all suggested getting the accumulator off the baler, haul by hand, and solve the accumulating with the hoelsher by making it a stand alone with a pickup elevator... then the elevator will push the second bale against the first with no third bale involved to miss... I'm 52 now and typically my half to load and haul is only 200-250 bales max every 30-40 days, and I unload trailers later on the following weekend... throw 10 60-80lb typical weight bales up on the loft floor from the trailer, up the ladder and stack, down and repeat... apart from he occasional 100lb baling, I like the work, but it'd be good to get the solution for the years to come... so, I'd have go thru the calculations, but I believe 2-3gpm motor would run a two bale lift and shove elevator. I've hooked up the 544 to the accumulator sitting in the shed and it'll run the arm, but are not robbing any for the not added yet motor and elevator. Of course, one could do a pto shaft to a right angle gearbox, and shaft drive the elevator, as the pto isn't being used running without a baler... and with just 2-3gpm, you could run both the tractor hydraulics to run the accumulator, and a pto pump, small reservoir for that much flow and load, I suppose. only reason to get real devoted to a whole system ran from a full plant of say 16-20gpm is that the old super M could be just attached to the thing through baling season and I'd have a purpose for that tractor... running everything off pto pump system... whole lot of typing there, but I thought it'd help knowing what kind of puzzle I got myself going here... ha... here's the current accumulator spec and manual site, and mine is the older series that's red with dual wheels on each side, on the casters... any input is welcome...
  12. farmall axle planter sprocket

    Went into all the pump, gpm, hydraulic motor, etc. stuff before, back last year... found a similar topic from this RPForum here:
  13. farmall axle planter sprocket

    man, DD, I like your "junk collection"... walking around that collection would be warming in the glow of he good years... that f20 looks complete... it's impressive what they designed back then and how it appears to be well working. My great uncles had a standard A and F20 that they planted and cultivated 100acres in corn with (before my time, and I only saw the tractors and uncles as they'd leased land out and were on very late in life)... I expect they hired the harvest in later years... didn't have a picker or combine that I heard of... my cousin has the A, don't know where the f20 went after the auction. All that planter drive and pump drive you show sure looks well designed... i bet those fellows back in those years were entertained in the operation of that equipment... you're right about it being better at the elevator and ground driven. I'm probably on a rabbit hole path on axle drive approach... just got the ideas going seeing that split gear in the recent forum... issue is on the accumulator that It's a hoelsher 1000 that's meant to run behind a baler and the exit chute of the baler feeds into the accumulator... so to do this, they did a great design of the accumulator running on casters, so that it swings around behind the baler, not like a trailer, but like pulling a shopping cart backwards and swinging the front of it around while the baler wheels are like the cart wheels that don't turn... makes it like the baler is just much longer to pull and turn... so the accumulator can't really be used like it should be in my case for a few reasons.... one, I got a faster baler than they were made for really... 100 stroke/min Massey, where a 60 stroke/min baler would work fine with it... but the bales come too fast for it and the arm that shoves the bales up two at a time can't come back down fast enough to get out of he way of the next bale prior to the baler having another stroke occur... so it catches the next bale... I love the baler tho... another thing is I don't have more than 17gpm flow on the late model cab kubota of my late dad's, and we use it for the night baling we are doing... and that 17gpm is almost able to run the arm on the accumulator fast enough, but not always... but another issue is the baling at night, spraying preservative on the hay, and we are in tight little plots that maneuvering is tight in... plus we need to run up the road to other plots in the dark, and an inline baler with that accumulator is 12ft wide... just impractical, and too much to be tinkering and monitoring with alafafa needing to be done in an hour to have the right dew to prevent leaf shattering in the too little moisture of morning or too high moisture at night... tractor and baler are fast enough for all that, but the accumulator is just too time consuming and near it's speed limit, with bales occasionally getting stuck in its arm... so, we'd just rather bale and come back and accumulate he bales and grapple fork load the next day after a night baling ... that makes the accumulator I have, versus trading to another type, seem to be needed to be run stand alone on a tractor... and a hydraulic pump on the pto of the tractor and hydraulic motor on the added pickup elevator may make he most sense there... but, given the swinging caster axles on the accumulator, where it'll be tied at two points to the tractor and towed and swung wide behind the tractor at the ends, that'd make it prohibitive to ground drive on the accumulator... the ground drive there would have to be a caster, which is at least hard to do, if not impossible... the elevator could be raised and lowered for travel or operation, manually with ease, as it'll be light... but ground drive anywhere behind the tractor rear wheels would be dragged sideways when the turns are made, given the caster axles on the accumulator... some of this makes me want to just build a hydraulic plant... get a 20+ gpm pto pump, a tank, a splitter, and run a few gpm on a on/off valve valve to the pickup elevator motor and always drive the remaining gpm thru the accumulator system ... so to never dead head the flow, if the pto pump is on... then I'd never be using the tractor hydraulics... and could use whatever tractor is handy, most likely the 544... and the elevator runs along to the left of the tractors left back tire... to use the existing accumulator and do the least mods to it, other than adding a bolted on floating front pickup elevator, and run it with any tractor, it seems that a hydraulic plant is what I keep coming back to... but you can see how that split gear got my rabbit hole of thought going... dont know if it's ok to post YouTube links in the forum, but YouTube "hoelsher accumulator" and you can see how they were made to run... the older dual wheel caster red models are like what I have... it's a good model... I just have a too fast baler (and no >20gpm tractors) and the wrong plots and baling time for its traditional use case... so maybe my winter projects include a hydraulic plant build... that's still interesting... long as there's work going on... ha...
  14. farmall axle planter sprocket

    Thanks 65806... I see now. I'll research that area. That'd be a strong approach.
  15. farmall axle planter sprocket

    I've still got a rusty kneib pop up loader out here that's a bit of a monument, stood up down at the end of the driveway, with a dog clutch at the wheel... to wheel drive the axle, to run the pick up elevator chain in it... it's just all too big and awkward to run with the accumulator. Plus I don't want to cut up. I've gotten sentimentally convinced i might use it one day. Those things did work good on a grain truck, for loading a lot of hay fast. ... ... man, I get the relaxing the soul deal... I was showing my young cousin the piles of "treasures" up over the corn crib in the old barn that Dad and Grandad built in '45. Moms old ringer washer is up there, next to her previous washer (the old cast wash pot)... a few cases of grandad's beer bottles and whisky bottles are over in the corner. I set Pops last work boots on a ledge there to see when I get hay down from the loft. I went off to school in the 80s and came back one weekend... Dad and I went to open the crib door, and he said, "well I cleaned it out a bit"... all the horse drawn stuff of grandads was in there, but now was gone... I got real anxious about it and Pop said, "sold it to the Amish"... ok, that was different... going back in service was ok, somehow.... not that I wouldn't have rather still have it. Ha. I need to get the wash pot down and clean it up for stewing use.