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856 Farmall speed transmission countershaft

Do you torque the nut?

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#1 FarmerFixEmUp

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:23 PM

I have an 856 I'm putting a new TA in. I always torque the countershaft nut to 300 ft lbs, bend over 2 tabs on the retainer washer, drill the nut for a 1/8" roll pin and run a wire through the pin. Just making darn sure it doesn't come off! :P The 06 and 66 series book calls for 100 ft lbs and the 86 book calls for 300 ft lbs. Just wondering what you guys have done. Some of these TA companies say to tighten the nut, then back it off and pin it, but I've never trusted that method. Seems to me if it's that loose it wouldn't take much to come off. I guess the ultimate fix would be the LH thread countershaft from a late "86 series or a 30, 32, or 3688 tractor.
Farming and Fixing, I fix and farm with red stuff, mostly. Usable tractors are 5288, 1466, 1066, 1206, 826, 806, 756, 656, 800 and 950 planters, 4800 field cultivator, plus other misc, and a yellow TR combine. Also an S1700 grain truck. Also a fun '71 Chevelle! And a '40 M to restore when I get time! 966 M&W turbo.

#2 pete 23

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:32 PM

You are going to get a few different answers here. I tighten, then loosen, then locktite the nut and bend lock. If you tighten the nut the gears cannot follow their original wear patterns and you may very well have a noisey transmission, that is until they work them selves loose again as they surely will. My two cents.

#3 Nebraska1206

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:44 PM

The 06 thru 66 series books list the lower torque for the nut because the countershaft nut was originally a thinner nut. The ones in an 86 series were thicker, catching more threads on the countershaft, and could take a greater torque.

I always sell or use a new, wider countershaft nut if the original was a thin nut. Torque it to 300 ft.lbs, then bend over the tab washer in at least two places. We put grease on the washer, so the nut doesn't try & stick to the tab washer when torquing it. Otherwise, it likes to spin the tab washer, tear off the lil tab, and not hold the nut tight at all.
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#4 Maynard

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 06:17 PM

The 06 thru 66 series books list the lower torque for the nut because the countershaft nut was originally a thinner nut. The ones in an 86 series were thicker, catching more threads on the countershaft, and could take a greater torque.

I always sell or use a new, wider countershaft nut if the original was a thin nut. Torque it to 300 ft.lbs, then bend over the tab washer in at least two places. We put grease on the washer, so the nut doesn't try & stick to the tab washer when torquing it. Otherwise, it likes to spin the tab washer, tear off the lil tab, and not hold the nut tight at all.


The early countershafts didn't have enough threads for full engagement of the thick nut.

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#5 Red Tech

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:29 AM

Pete 23 nailed it as to why you never should torque that nut; you will have one unhappy customer when he picks up his tractor and complains about the gear noise.

I would tighten that nut like Pete 23 advised; however I do pin them with an 1/8" roll pin. I take the nut into our machine shop and put it in a vise set at a 45 degree angle. I then drill the hole through one of the six corners of the nut; the hole will exit within the inside threads. With the nut drilled this way, use it as a guide to drill the shaft; wiring the pin is not necessary.

#6 Farmall Doctor

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:45 AM

Pete 23 nailed it as to why you never should torque that nut; you will have one unhappy customer when he picks up his tractor and complains about the gear noise.

I would tighten that nut like Pete 23 advised; however I do pin them with an 1/8" roll pin. I take the nut into our machine shop and put it in a vise set at a 45 degree angle. I then drill the hole through one of the six corners of the nut; the hole will exit within the inside threads. With the nut drilled this way, use it as a guide to drill the shaft; wiring the pin is not necessary.


And where exactly do you think the gears going to be besides the original spot?? If the countershaft is not properly tightened it allows the spacers to spin freely on the shaft, causing undue wear, and allows the gears to walk on the shaft. I torque every one to 300 lb/ft, bend a tab (unless on LH shafts) and pin it. I have always torqued them, and have never encountered a noisy transmission afterwards.

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#7 pete 23

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:10 AM


Pete 23 nailed it as to why you never should torque that nut; you will have one unhappy customer when he picks up his tractor and complains about the gear noise.

I would tighten that nut like Pete 23 advised; however I do pin them with an 1/8" roll pin. I take the nut into our machine shop and put it in a vise set at a 45 degree angle. I then drill the hole through one of the six corners of the nut; the hole will exit within the inside threads. With the nut drilled this way, use it as a guide to drill the shaft; wiring the pin is not necessary.


And where exactly do you think the gears going to be besides the original spot?? If the countershaft is not properly tightened it allows the spacers to spin freely on the shaft, causing undue wear, and allows the gears to walk on the shaft. I torque every one to 300 lb/ft, bend a tab (unless on LH shafts) and pin it. I have always torqued them, and have never encountered a noisy transmission afterwards.



Those gears fit loose on the splined shaft so when you tighten them up they **** off to the side. You suppose HY-Capacity says to back nut off because they might have got a lot of complaints about noisy transmission after some one installed their TA unit. No fear though, they will be loosen again soon as they wear in a while. And I have been putting TA's in since the first one went out of an 806 in about 1966. This is what is great about being in a free country. , Every one can do it the way they have confidence it will work for them. . Your not going to change your way because I say so, and I am not going to change my way because you say so.

#8 FarmerFixEmUp

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:16 PM



Pete 23 nailed it as to why you never should torque that nut; you will have one unhappy customer when he picks up his tractor and complains about the gear noise.

I would tighten that nut like Pete 23 advised; however I do pin them with an 1/8" roll pin. I take the nut into our machine shop and put it in a vise set at a 45 degree angle. I then drill the hole through one of the six corners of the nut; the hole will exit within the inside threads. With the nut drilled this way, use it as a guide to drill the shaft; wiring the pin is not necessary.


And where exactly do you think the gears going to be besides the original spot?? If the countershaft is not properly tightened it allows the spacers to spin freely on the shaft, causing undue wear, and allows the gears to walk on the shaft. I torque every one to 300 lb/ft, bend a tab (unless on LH shafts) and pin it. I have always torqued them, and have never encountered a noisy transmission afterwards.



Those gears fit loose on the splined shaft so when you tighten them up they **** off to the side. You suppose HY-Capacity says to back nut off because they might have got a lot of complaints about noisy transmission after some one installed their TA unit. No fear though, they will be loosen again soon as they wear in a while. And I have been putting TA's in since the first one went out of an 806 in about 1966. This is what is great about being in a free country. , Every one can do it the way they have confidence it will work for them. . Your not going to change your way because I say so, and I am not going to change my way because you say so.


I hope I didn't start a controversy here! ;) I have done it by torquing the nut since I started in 1979. I have had a few that are a little noisy but it usually goes away in a few hours. I have seen several tractors where the countershaft nut came loose in 20 or 30 hours using the method where you back off the nut. (Done by some co workers,) I've also seen some break the countershaft in 2 pieces.
To each his own, no right or wrong, just different. :wacko:
Farming and Fixing, I fix and farm with red stuff, mostly. Usable tractors are 5288, 1466, 1066, 1206, 826, 806, 756, 656, 800 and 950 planters, 4800 field cultivator, plus other misc, and a yellow TR combine. Also an S1700 grain truck. Also a fun '71 Chevelle! And a '40 M to restore when I get time! 966 M&W turbo.

#9 Farmall Doctor

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:20 PM

..so tightening the nut removes .010" of play... I don't think that's going to make a difference.... the countershaft rear bearing has more end play than that when a roller bearing is used... just sayin...

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#10 5488ih

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:36 PM

not that it matters but when i was taught in 1997 the nut torqued to what ever spec was called for, bent the lock washer in a couple spots and then tack welded the nut to the counter shaft. those who taught me have been repairing ih tractors as long as there have been TAs to repair. i never had a nut back off yet. i guess i cant say that i know of anyone complaining about loud trans gears after the fact.



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