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D358 Oil or Fuel spitting out the exhaust and heavy smoke.


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#1 international560

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 06:38 PM

I've been having bad luck all around, I just got finished rebuilding the motor in my 04.5 Dodge/Cummins because cracked rings, and now my 560 is having fits. My 560 hadn't been started in a few weeks and I had to move it out of the garage to pull my truck in there and rebuild the engine. Well when i went to start it, it was really really hard to to start, it spun over fast but was pushing out lots of smoke and would occasionally pop and push out a few smoke rings and after lots of cranking, it finally started (which is very odd for this tractor, it always starts on first try, even in the coldest weather). Well after it started it was missing horribly and quickly filled the garage with smoke, my eyes were burning, so I hurried into to gear and got it out of the garage, it was running pretty rough and would not take fuel above an all, it would just clatter louder the more if pulled the throttle down but wouldn't speed up. After it ran for a cpuple minutes the idle smoothed a little it would take throttle, but I noticed what looked to be oil running down the stack. I quickly moved it out of the drive and shut it off and noticed it also has it running from the manifold and down the side of the block. I checked all around the head and nothing looks blown between the head and gasket and there was no blow-by coming out of the tube, so I think the bottom end is fine (the engine has very low hours as well).I have messed with a lot of engines and the last time I seen one do anything close to this , that just wasn't worn out, was an old case 1030 that turned out to be an injectors pi$$ing into the cylinder and not burning, so it was just pushing raw fuel out the exhaust. The only things that concerns me is that this is putting out a lot more, the oil level has not dropped on the dipstick though and I am really leaning toward an injector issue, maybe one totally lost a tip, I am probably going to pull them tonight, I already pull the valve cover and everything looks good from the top end and all the seals are in place so that sort of rules out a dropped valve. The tractor ran too good just a couple weeks ago for this to be a "worn out" issue. Has anyone ever had this happen before just out of the blue like this? The tractor always runs great and has plenty of power but I am afraid to run it too long right now so I guess I'll start with the injectors and hope a tip is bad without dropping a piece in a piston.
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#2 farmall666

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 06:58 PM

FIRST OF ALL A 560 SHOULD BE A 282 NOT A 358 GERMAN DIESEL. OR DID YOU DO A REPLANT IN IT? START WITH LIKE YOU SAID. I THINK U WILL FIND THE PROBLEM.

#3 international560

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 07:58 PM

I assure you that it is a D358 German Diesel, from a 782 IH cotton picker to be exact.
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#4 Owen Aaland

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 09:29 PM

If you still had a D282 in it I would say that the glow plugs weren't working but with a D358 we can rule that out.

My guess is that the injection pump is stuck in the start position. On tractors with a shut off cable you can get them to act like that if the shut off lever is not in the correct position. Since it is out of a cotton picker it probably has an electrical shut off? I have not worked on any of those. Not much cotton grown in Minnesota.

#5 international560

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 10:10 PM

Yeah, It has the electric shut off and the hard start doesn't concern me as much as the oil or fuel that is running out of the manifold. I pulled the injectors and none of them were obviously bad just by looking at them (like if a nozzle had failed), I will have to pop test them and see if one is streaming, but it just seems like so much is coming out that it wouldn't just be a poor injector spray pattern. I am probably going to pull the head anyway, because there was a lot of grime around the injectors that had made it's way past the o-ring and probably fell into the cylinder. The head gasket is only $30 or $40 so I am willing to pay that to get that crud out of the cylinders. Being a cotton picker engine, the engine had lots of cotton stock on it with sand here and there as well. The engine was cleaned really good a long time ago, but I guess there was still some down around the injectors and I am worried some dropped into the cylinder when I pulled the injectors.
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#6 international560

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 10:28 PM

I took the pipe off the manifold and rubbed my finger on the edge to show how much oil it is spitting out.

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And this is a picture of just cranking the tractor really quick, I was going to start it and crack the injectors lines but it was just too smoky to do in the garage.

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#7 Sean in NE

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 11:48 PM

Our 886 has the 358 in it. I notice it would "slobber" from the 1st and 2nd port of the exhaust manifold. This only seems to do it when it is running the auger at idle or 1000 engine RPMS and more in the winter. It was more fuel and condensation than any oil since it would come out thru the gasket.

Your case is way different than the slobber issue we have had. It always starts really quick. Sometimes it sounds like its chugging along at first then speed it up some and then is smooth.

If it is oil coming out too, you should see a difference in the oil level. That is puzzling. Unless diesel is filling in the pan.

See about pulling an injector line at a time to narrow it down to a specific cylinder.

Also I'm not sure how the pump is setup for lubrication, but could there be somehow oil could get in the fuel injection side? I'm probably wrong on that, but hopefully someone else will have the right answer.
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Tractors of the farm:
1997 Case-IH 8940 FWA, 223hp
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1979 International 3588, 2+2 "Anteater" 150hp
1978 International 1086 2wd, 144hp
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2007 International 9400, ISX 475hp, 13spd
1998 International 9300, 3406E 455hp, 18spd
1975 International 200, 4x4, 345 automatic
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#8 Allan in NE

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 06:40 AM

All that tractor needs is to work.

Take it out and work the snot out of 'er for half a day and all will be well. They don't like to "putz around".

Allan

#9 international560

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 06:56 AM

This tractor doesn't really putz around though, I pull it. It just hasn't seen much action this year because money has been tight, a friends funeral and then my truck had an issue and now I am going to miss another because this issue. The issue has me wondering because it was running perfect just a couple weeks ago, It set after I painted it and now it does this. I have had the tractor for several years and put the engine in myself, and redone everything front to back. It set around a lot the first couple years with only a couple pulls here and there (because work schedule) and it never acted this way, It has always started right up and ran great even in colder weather. I am gonna pop test the injectors soon and see how they are doing, I have been wanting to put bigger nozzles in it for a while anyway.
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#10 Dirtboyz07

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 06:59 AM

I will say the same thing , put it on the dyno or put it in the field and it will get rid of the unburned fuel. Have your injectors redone and use the spec. for 3088 or a 1620 combine. If you have time pull the head and have it cut .020 along with put all new valves and seat in , this will cure your trouble. They are just lower compression motor and they just need a little fine tuning.

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[size=2] '84 5388 (replica prototype), '05 International CXT (Former International Show Truck), '75 1566, '71 1066 (narrow front open station), '84 1420, '81 782 Cub Cadet[/size]



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