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Why does a 4430 use more fuel then the comparible IH?


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#1 JandM966

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 03:36 PM

A neighbor and I were talking the other day about this. He purchased a '77 4430 this year to cut and bale with. He mows with a 9' kuhn discmower, and bales with a 457 deere baler, so its not under a load at all.
But he was telling me mowing and baleing that he burns 70-80 gallons of fuel every 3 days. In those 3 days he may cover 35 acres(cuts and bales at 5.5 mph) and avereaging 2.5-3 bales per acre, not alot. My 14 is set to 175hp, and doesnt burn near that. I cut with a 1431 NH discbine which is 12 foot cut. I cut 80 acres on 50 gallons of fuel, running between 10 and 12 mph. To me if anyone was going to burn more fuel it would be me since I have a bigger load and more hp. As to the tractor specs, heres his then mine.

~4430 is set at 143 hp, 8 spd powershift, cab and air, with 18.4-38's, no weights. He runs his pto equipment around 15-1600 rpm(I know I know :blink: ) Motor overhauled, head work down, new injectors and pump. It was dynoed the day he bought it. I went with him to pick it up. weighs 12,500

~1466 is set to 175 hp, t/a equiped, open station, 20.8-38's, run my equipment at rated pto speed (in this case 1000rpm for the mower) New motor, injector pump, injectors, weighted and has loader. i had mine dyno'd a few months back. Weighs 14,900

as far as the ground goes, the 80 that I cut was much thicker in hay. I was cutting hay beans that average 4-5 bpa, he was on first cutting fescue.

Whats the deal? why does his burn so much more fuel? His has the 404 but has an in-line pump. Is that the difference between fuel usage? My uncle runs a 4440, and a 4430 and he complains about fuel usage too. I was just curious, I had alot of time to ponder this today while at work.
John

Proud member of DILLIGAF pullers assoc.!

If we give up our right to freedom for security, in the end we have niether. (I think its from an NRA bumper sticker)

If its green you either mow it or spend it!
If it aint red leave it in the shed!

"God bless America and the farmer that feeds your fat a$$!" have that on a bumper sticker

Blowing smoke til Im broke, running red til Im dead.

1943 Farmall B,1964 IH 706(future puller), 1974 IH 966 openstation with a Buhler-Allied 795 loader, 1974 IH 1066 with DT466 and 3LM turbo, 1979 IH 1586, 1991 CaseIH 5140 with westendorf WL-42 loader, IH 510 4 bottom plow (BIL's uncle bought it new and only plowed 20 acers and sat in a shed til i bought it!) John Deere 735 MowCo, Hesston 3940 12 wheel hi-capacity wheel rake, 2012 John Deere 468 with netwrap , 1999.5 Ford F-250 XLT extended cab powerstroke diesel!!

Other colors: '68 JD 2510.

Past tractors:'74 IH 1466 Factory Fender tractor, '84 IH 3688, '74 IH 1466 with Cab, '79 IH 1086 with cab, '78 AC 7060 with cab, '65 AC 190xt, '64 Oliver 1800C, '64 Oliver 1600, '60 Oliver 1900, '63 JD 4010, '92 JD 2555 with cab, '64 JD 3020.

#2 retento

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 03:41 PM

I always blamed the JD cylinder head...... Air has to enter, light off and come back out the same way, rather than in one side, out the other of the cross flow design of IH.... That and the hard pulling hydraulic pump. Another thing...How much fuel did they use when you started them up? Better have the cab door closed!! LOL!

#3 JandM966

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 03:57 PM

I always blamed the JD cylinder head...... Air has to enter, light off and come back out the same way, rather than in one side, out the other of the cross flow design of IH.... That and the hard pulling hydraulic pump. Another thing...How much fuel did they use when you started them up? Better have the cab door closed!! LOL!

Lol I told him to just let it idle all night, itd burn less fuel :D I bet his burns 5 gallons on start up! His looks like a profield tractor on start up...
John

Proud member of DILLIGAF pullers assoc.!

If we give up our right to freedom for security, in the end we have niether. (I think its from an NRA bumper sticker)

If its green you either mow it or spend it!
If it aint red leave it in the shed!

"God bless America and the farmer that feeds your fat a$$!" have that on a bumper sticker

Blowing smoke til Im broke, running red til Im dead.

1943 Farmall B,1964 IH 706(future puller), 1974 IH 966 openstation with a Buhler-Allied 795 loader, 1974 IH 1066 with DT466 and 3LM turbo, 1979 IH 1586, 1991 CaseIH 5140 with westendorf WL-42 loader, IH 510 4 bottom plow (BIL's uncle bought it new and only plowed 20 acers and sat in a shed til i bought it!) John Deere 735 MowCo, Hesston 3940 12 wheel hi-capacity wheel rake, 2012 John Deere 468 with netwrap , 1999.5 Ford F-250 XLT extended cab powerstroke diesel!!

Other colors: '68 JD 2510.

Past tractors:'74 IH 1466 Factory Fender tractor, '84 IH 3688, '74 IH 1466 with Cab, '79 IH 1086 with cab, '78 AC 7060 with cab, '65 AC 190xt, '64 Oliver 1800C, '64 Oliver 1600, '60 Oliver 1900, '63 JD 4010, '92 JD 2555 with cab, '64 JD 3020.

#4 f30puller

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 03:59 PM

you already said it... powershift.

#5 EJH1466

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 04:09 PM

Well, he has a 9' mower where your's is 12', so he's taking 3' less on each round compared to you. Another thing is that he's going a heck of a lot slower in the field than you are too. I bet you can have that 80 acres mowed in about the same amount of time it takes that guy with the 4430 to mow his 35-40 acres.
Eric
1976 IH 1066, 1974 IH 1466, 1973 JD 4230, 1960 JD 730D, 1953 IH Super H, 1952 IH Super M, 1976 Gleaner L

#6 JandM966

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 04:20 PM

Well, he has a 9' mower where your's is 12', so he's taking 3' less on each round compared to you. Another thing is that he's going a heck of a lot slower in the field than you are too. I bet you can have that 80 acres mowed in about the same amount of time it takes that guy with the 4430 to mow his 35-40 acres.
Eric

I understand what your saying, but mine would pull harder, right? I maybe way off. But even so is there that much difference that his burns that much more then mine? In a weeks time he burns 140 gallons, where as Im just burning half that, and covering more ground. To me it would sound like I have everything going against me except for the width and ground speed. i have more weight, more hp, and more load. When I mowed that 80, the tractor had a pretty good trail of smoke out the stack. Ill look and see if I have any pics of it.
John

Proud member of DILLIGAF pullers assoc.!

If we give up our right to freedom for security, in the end we have niether. (I think its from an NRA bumper sticker)

If its green you either mow it or spend it!
If it aint red leave it in the shed!

"God bless America and the farmer that feeds your fat a$$!" have that on a bumper sticker

Blowing smoke til Im broke, running red til Im dead.

1943 Farmall B,1964 IH 706(future puller), 1974 IH 966 openstation with a Buhler-Allied 795 loader, 1974 IH 1066 with DT466 and 3LM turbo, 1979 IH 1586, 1991 CaseIH 5140 with westendorf WL-42 loader, IH 510 4 bottom plow (BIL's uncle bought it new and only plowed 20 acers and sat in a shed til i bought it!) John Deere 735 MowCo, Hesston 3940 12 wheel hi-capacity wheel rake, 2012 John Deere 468 with netwrap , 1999.5 Ford F-250 XLT extended cab powerstroke diesel!!

Other colors: '68 JD 2510.

Past tractors:'74 IH 1466 Factory Fender tractor, '84 IH 3688, '74 IH 1466 with Cab, '79 IH 1086 with cab, '78 AC 7060 with cab, '65 AC 190xt, '64 Oliver 1800C, '64 Oliver 1600, '60 Oliver 1900, '63 JD 4010, '92 JD 2555 with cab, '64 JD 3020.

#7 FarmallFrank

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 04:32 PM

I would say the best way to get an even comparison is swap tractors for the next cutting.

I know why would you want to run a Deere, but maybe you could use his mower and baler for his next round of cutting that would give you a more accurate comparison. And/or have him do your next cut with your equipment.

#8 Mark O.

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 04:53 PM

Years ago I worked for a land clearing company that had a Case 930 Crop King and a leased JD 4230.

We were both pulling construction discs of equal size and weight.

To be fair, the JD would go about half again as fast through the field as the Case.

At the end of each day we would put about the same amount of fuel in each tractor. The difference was we would put about the same amount again into the JD at lunch.

So for twice the amount of fuel it would do half again as much work.

I am thinking the JD was a little thirsty compared to the Case.
Mark O.
Winlock, WA

#9 Eason

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 05:29 PM

When I started to work with the state at a research farm we had a 4430 sycrorange with creeper for picking peanuts. I always said it was a thirsty gutless wonder. We would have to bring it up at lunch to fuel it up. It would not run 8 hours on a tank of fuel. After dad died a friend bought our 856. He sold the 856 and bought a 4430. He likes the cab and ride of the 4430 but says the 856 will out pull it and work just as much with a lot less fuel. Eason
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#10 GaryhMN

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 06:45 PM

Do not want get into color war but a neighbor said i think my 4430 uses 5gph just idling. Also was told and I can remember the numbers of a 4430 and a White that took turns running a drainage pump same load same time and the JD used alot more fuel.



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