[Steve C.]

I always guessed that the German engines inspired, at least in general layout, the 312/360/414/436/466 engines, since the fuel pump and oil cooler locations are similar. Or maybe it was just a coincidence. Anybody know?

[664 CDN]

George, I only wanted to make the point that 361 was direct injection.
I am fully aware that it was too big for the 706.
Glow plug engine use pre cups and are not direct injection.
IMHO they made the right move using the 310 & 358 engines.
Ray

[mike_newman]

o121937, on Aug 16 2008, 04:22 PM, said:

I think that IH recognized that they had good engines available. There was the British BD264 seen in the Farmall Super BMD, which was a direct starting diesel engine (first in about 1951) very similar, but more heavily built engine similar the gasoline BC264. It was also built as the AD264 in Australia. There were also the BD144 and BD154 engines used in the B-250 and B-275 tractors. The French had a diesel version of the Super C engine the FD-123 that was fitted to the French Super FCD tractors.
However the German IH plant in Neuss had been developing diesel engines from the early 1950s. The first was a diesel version of the Farmall F-12 engine. By now had 132 cub in displacement with direct electric starting (glow plugs) as was just beaten into place by the above mentioned BD264 diesel. The German engine was fitted to the DF25 Farmall which still showed, in terms of gear-box and final transmission it's F-12 origins.
In 1953 Neuss works produced 3 new diesel engines, all with the same bore and stroke 3.25 inch and 4 inch, with 2 3 and 4 cylinders. The smallest, the 2 cylinder 66ci D-66 was fitted to the equivalent of a diesel cub, the 12 HP DLD-2 Farmall, the 3 cylinder D-99 engine was fitted to the Standard tractor the 20 HP DED-3 Farmall and the largest 4 cylinder D-132 was fitted to the 30HP DGD-4.
IH New Zealand felt it had no place for the DLD-2, the competitor was the Super A and Cub, the DGD-4 would compete with the British B-250 but they did import about 252 of the DED-3 as a competitor to the Ferguson TEA-20.
In 1956 IH Neuss introduced two versions of its three earlier diesel engines, the second set with slightly increased bore so now there were two versions of each size tractor. there were the 2 cylinder Farmall D-212 and Farmall D-217, the first having the 3.25 inch bore and the second 3 7/16 inch bore (12HP and 17HP, the D=German, the 2 implies 2 cylinders). There were the 3 cylinder Farmalls D-320 and D-324 tractors (52 of the D-324 Farmalls came to NZ) and the 4 cylinder Farmalls D-432 and D-436. In 1958 the name Farmall was dropped and the two high clearance tractors the D-212 and the D-217 were replaced with the D-214 and D-217 Standard tractors which now looked more like the larger counterparts. In all these tractors there was a great standardization of components in both tractors and engines. The Neuss engines, and gear-boxes also appeared in many of the later small French tractors.
In the early 1960s a new generation of German diesel engines appeared, improvements to the earlier good engines and IH decided that rather than try to update its outdated petrol start diesels it would use the good products it already had. This was the start of globalization and the international line of tractors coming out of IH Europe in the mid 1960's.

Athol, the American blokes seem to have liked that German POS,in the farm tractors... but to have had one in the Australian ACCOF truck line was one of the worst retail experiences , an IH client could ever have.....

Mike

[Michael Halsall]

Kaito, on Aug 17 2008, 06:30 AM, said:

Just a general question – why did IH use the German diesel engine in North American tractors (eg 706, 786, 88

Just wondering what the reason was to bring engines to North America, when great engines were being built here – maybe it was as simple as manufacturing capacity ???

I believe that R & D (Research & Development) is a huge expense for any corporation.

If a suitable engine is developed by a division anywhere in the world, why not adapt it to power various products throughout the world!

In Australia we used the German engines in the A-766 and 696 (D-310), the 866 (D-358)
and the 976 (DT-358) tractors.
Those tractors were modified US designs, built in Australia, powered by German engines.
To design a tractor and engine from a blank page would be hugely expensive.

Regards from Michael H

[Kaito]

Thanks for the perspectives !!

[M.D. 7140]

Just thought I would add somyhing to this topic of german engines we had a IH 885 XL tractor with a cab and a german engine in it it was a 4 cylinder we buoght in 1990 and traded it in 1995 engine was the only good thing it had. No it was not a case IH nobody cuold tell me when it was made or where. Parts were hard to get they thought it was a pre production tractor that should not have been sold and they were right.

Just thought I would add somyhing to this topic of german engines we had a IH 885 XL tractor with a cab and a german engine in it it was a 4 cylinder we buoght in 1990 and traded it in 1995 engine was the only good thing it had. No it was not a case IH nobody cuold tell me when it was made or where. Parts were hard to get they thought it was a pre production tractor that should not have been sold and they were right.

[Michael Halsall]

Kaito, on Aug 18 2008, 03:44 AM, said:

Thanks for the perspectives !!

Here is a list of GERMAN built diesel engines used in North American built tractors-

D-155 three cylinder used in the 500 C crawler

D-179 three cylinder used in the 454 and 464

D-206 four cylinder used in the TD-7 C crawler

D-239 four cylinder used in the 544, 574 and 664 and TD-8 C crawler

DT-239 turbo four used in the TD-8 E crawler

D-310 six cylinder used in the later 706, the 756 and 686

D-358 six cylinder used in the 826, 786, 3088 and 3288


Regards from Michael H

[retento]

(Quote) D-155 three cylinder used in the 500 C crawler and the 385 utility tractor

Also the D-246 used in the 784 and Hydro 84 tractors.

[MnRed]

The D-239 was also used in the 684 tractors. I have a 684D, and is does not want to stop. RAY

[tommyw-5088]

Aaron, on Aug 16 2008, 07:38 PM, said:

Wasn't the change in the 886 and others to the German engine to free production at Melrose Park to build 414/436/466 engines vs retooling to build 312/360's??

BTW what is left at Melrose Park....do they still build engines there? Found myself wandering around there one day and wanted to see the plant. Anyone have the address...might take a few pics.

the early 886"s have a 360 ,i think ours is a 77 model , i think the 766"s are also a 360 .

360 is a very good engine .

i was told the same thing ,the change was to free up production so the D and DT engines could be built for trucks .