[Kaito]

Just a general question – why did IH use the German diesel engine in North American tractors (eg 706, 786, 886)?

Could IH not have used an engine tuned/designed over here instead? I’m thinking that there must have been costs associated to shipping over here as well as having added parts inventory, etc for this European engine. Then again, was it a case of happening to have an engine already designed in/for Europe that was so good, that in fact it was cheaper to produce more and ship them over here for use in tractors built here as opposed to re-tooling for a new engine design, and all associated costs.

Nothing against the German built engine. In fact I see many on this forum who really liked them – I know I did with the 786 / MFD / ROPS / IH 2350 loader that friends had. A great machine.

Just wondering what the reason was to bring engines to North America, when great engines were being built here – maybe it was as simple as manufacturing capacity ???

[retento]

IH German Diesel Engine - why was it used in US built tractors.....They were CHEAP.

[o121937]

I think that IH recognized that they had good engines available. There was the British BD264 seen in the Farmall Super BMD, which was a direct starting diesel engine (first in about 1951) very similar, but more heavily built engine similar the gasoline BC264. It was also built as the AD264 in Australia. There were also the BD144 and BD154 engines used in the B-250 and B-275 tractors. The French had a diesel version of the Super C engine the FD-123 that was fitted to the French Super FCD tractors.
However the German IH plant in Neuss had been developing diesel engines from the early 1950s. The first was a diesel version of the Farmall F-12 engine. By now had 132 cub in displacement with direct electric starting (glow plugs) as was just beaten into place by the above mentioned BD264 diesel. The German engine was fitted to the DF25 Farmall which still showed, in terms of gear-box and final transmission it's F-12 origins.
In 1953 Neuss works produced 3 new diesel engines, all with the same bore and stroke 3.25 inch and 4 inch, with 2 3 and 4 cylinders. The smallest, the 2 cylinder 66ci D-66 was fitted to the equivalent of a diesel cub, the 12 HP DLD-2 Farmall, the 3 cylinder D-99 engine was fitted to the Standard tractor the 20 HP DED-3 Farmall and the largest 4 cylinder D-132 was fitted to the 30HP DGD-4.
IH New Zealand felt it had no place for the DLD-2, the competitor was the Super A and Cub, the DGD-4 would compete with the British B-250 but they did import about 252 of the DED-3 as a competitor to the Ferguson TEA-20.
In 1956 IH Neuss introduced two versions of its three earlier diesel engines, the second set with slightly increased bore so now there were two versions of each size tractor. there were the 2 cylinder Farmall D-212 and Farmall D-217, the first having the 3.25 inch bore and the second 3 7/16 inch bore (12HP and 17HP, the D=German, the 2 implies 2 cylinders). There were the 3 cylinder Farmalls D-320 and D-324 tractors (52 of the D-324 Farmalls came to NZ) and the 4 cylinder Farmalls D-432 and D-436. In 1958 the name Farmall was dropped and the two high clearance tractors the D-212 and the D-217 were replaced with the D-214 and D-217 Standard tractors which now looked more like the larger counterparts. In all these tractors there was a great standardization of components in both tractors and engines. The Neuss engines, and gear-boxes also appeared in many of the later small French tractors.
In the early 1960s a new generation of German diesel engines appeared, improvements to the earlier good engines and IH decided that rather than try to update its outdated petrol start diesels it would use the good products it already had. This was the start of globalization and the international line of tractors coming out of IH Europe in the mid 1960's.

[yellowrosefarm]

Wasn't everyone else doing it too? Deere had it's Mannheim plant for the 2000 series tractors. Ford sold the Dexta, Allis and MF had Perkins if memory serves.

[Aaron]

Wasn't the change in the 886 and others to the German engine to free production at Melrose Park to build 414/436/466 engines vs retooling to build 312/360's??

BTW what is left at Melrose Park....do they still build engines there? Found myself wandering around there one day and wanted to see the plant. Anyone have the address...might take a few pics.

[George 2]

In the case of the 706, IH needed more power and a direct start engine/ By the time they realized that they didn't have the time to develop it. the D310 was already available and it was a simple matter of not having to spend more money for an engine that was several years away. Eventually they deveoped their own direct start in the US . That was the D312 and D360 and they were placed in the US built tractors in late 1972. Then the DT466 was put in the trucks in 1975 and demand for them exploded. The increase in DT 466 production came at the expense of D312 and D360 production. They were shutdown in Melrose Park and once again the D310 and D358 were imported. That was in 1979. Later in the 1980's the DT360 was produced again up to 1993 for the trucks.

[664 CDN]

George 2, on Aug 16 2008, 06:44 PM, said:

In the case of the 706, IH needed more power and a direct start engine/ By the time they realized that they didn't have the time to develop it. the D310 was already available and it was a simple matter of not having to spend more money for an engine that was several years away. Eventually they deveoped their own direct start in the US . That was the D312 and D360 and they were placed in the US built tractors in late 1972. Then the DT466 was put in the trucks in 1975 and demand for them exploded. The increase in DT 466 production came at the expense of D312 and D360 production. They were shutdown in Melrose Park and once again the D310 and D358 were imported. That was in 1979. Later in the 1980's the DT360 was produced again up to 1993 for the trucks.

Dumb question, Was the 361 in the 806 not a direct start?

[czech]

George 2, on Aug 16 2008, 07:44 PM, said:

In the case of the 706, IH needed more power and a direct start engine/ By the time they realized that they didn't have the time to develop it. the D310 was already available and it was a simple matter of not having to spend more money for an engine that was several years away. Eventually they deveoped their own direct start in the US . That was the D312 and D360 and they were placed in the US built tractors in late 1972. Then the DT466 was put in the trucks in 1975 and demand for them exploded. The increase in DT 466 production came at the expense of D312 and D360 production. They were shutdown in Melrose Park and once again the D310 and D358 were imported. That was in 1979. Later in the 1980's the DT360 was produced again up to 1993 for the trucks.

Yes the D-361 was direct start. So was the D-282.

[George 2]

Direct start means direct injection and NO glowplugs. I would take a direct injection engine any day over the old indirect injected engines such as the D282, BD154 and D188. The direct injection D361 could not be used in the 706 because it cost too much. It was considerably more expensive than the D310. An engine weight comparison tells the story.

[Guy Fay]

Hmmm.... sounds like I started a good series of articles coming up in the next issue. Doesn't answer the question quite, but does explain the tie in between the German Diesels and the 300/400 family.