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I'm Stupid; Help Me Understand?


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#1 Allan in NE

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 05:01 AM

Okay,

I'm awfully close to buying this machine. I can buy it at a VERY reasonable price “IF” I make all necessary repairs. Has been on this lot for over a year; local farmers don't want it because it is an International and it has a 14' head.

Okay, fine. That part doesn’t bother me one little bit; fact is, red is good. :)

Been over the machine with a fine tooth eye. Diesel pops right off on a cold morning/runs just great, hydro works fine, absolutely everything works as it should down to the lights and turn signals. Already been switched over to R-134A Freon. Original floor mat without a tear, seat is in perfect shape; paint still on the control pedals.

The only things of any consequence that I can find wrong with it are that the alternator belt needs tightening and the discharge chute needs rebuilding (somebody’s been backing up)..........no problem, I can sure handle that.

Oh yeah, the outfit needs a waxing too. :)

Now, for the stupid part: This thing scares me. And it's probably because I just don't understand it.

How in the heck does that conditioner work? It is the double over-shot auger header; the conditioner mounts to and is part of the base machine. At the center, the rolls are located a good three to four feet back behind the sickle.

I know it wasn't designed to pick the hay up off the ground. Does the forward momentum make it "catch" the hay in mid-air? How does it work?

I currently have a NH-495, which is an absolute monster on cutting hay. You hook up, cut hay and then park the silly thing for the winter. Zero problems. Only trouble is, the joker is just a bit "clumsy" trying to maneuver. Actually, it’s royal PITA to jockey around, fold up, run up and down the road and thru the gates.

Would like to have a self-propelled type and this one is certainly cheap enough.

Thanks for any coaching,

Allan

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#2 495man

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 05:30 AM

How far apart is the gap when the header is down? Looks as if when the header is up it moves away from the mounted rolls.

#3 Allan in NE

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 05:47 AM

Prior owner had been using it to swath grain. Conditioner is unhooked and the drive chain is under the seat. I've read the owner's manual cover to cover and it really doesn't explain that conditioner hookup in relation to the header.

The owner of the lot said the same thing; as the header comes down, it will come closer to the rolls.

But, that's not true. It moves right with and in fact, is lifted by the head via some lift chains. Always the same distance to the rear.

Now, the book says that there are three different headers. On the single auger and on the drapper headers, the crimper bolts/mounts directly to the header. Only on this double auger type, does the conditioner mount to the base machine.

I'm just having a hard time getting my mind around that open space there in the middle. :(

Allan

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#4 Paul DeWitte

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 05:56 AM

Allan, is there any chance on trying it out before you hand over the money?

It looks like a lot of hay going through a narrow set of rolls

As you let the head down does the conditioner rolls move closer to the head due to changing the angle of the head in relation to ground?

#5 shot_gun_red

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 06:16 AM

Allan I think there is a throwing rotor and some metal missing from your machine! That crimper will "pull" that hay through but you need to get it close first! You think the old owner might have a hay head still at his place ? Down here we would call your machine with that head a haybine and one with the hay head a swather :mellow:

Oh ya you will have to rake behind that machine ! Were that head (in the center 4 foot) cuts over the bar and onto the ground that hay won't be laying side ways for your pick-up on your baler to grab , I took the crimper off a hesston and found this out :( That crimper tangles it enough to pick-up

#6 eieio58

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 06:29 AM

We have been running our 5000 for several years and when we purchased it the crimper was not attached and the forming shields were missing. We got it hooked up without the shields and it works fine. As far as to how the hay gets into the crimper I would say the bottom roller does pick the hay up off the ground. In heavy alfalfa I need to slow down because it is a lot of materal for such a narrow crimper. We have had to replace the crank shaft seal on the front of the engine (radiator end) and our wobble box had one mounting hole break so I am looking for a used box. Hope this helps Tim

#7 farmall57

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 07:31 AM

I put up with my junk Hesston 1014+2 for years looking for a decent used 5000 and was never able to find one. Finally bought a used New Holland 1112. Wish I'd have been able to find a 5000 like that instead. Nice machine. Did any other use a similar double overshot auger system like that or was that something entirely exclusive to IH?

3788, 856, 666 w/F11, 240 w/Wagner backhoe, 4136 IH Skid Steer, 3850 Payloader, 350 Diesel utility, 300, M (2), H (2), Super C, 58 A110, 59 B160, 62 C120 4x4, 66 Scout, 68 Scout, 68 Travelall, 71 Loadstar 1600, 75 Loadstar 1700 4x4 w/Coleman axle, 71 1110 4x4, 73 1210 4x4 (3), 74 150 4x4, 74 Scout w/Chrysler 440, 78 Traveler, 80 Scout Diesel, 80 Terra Diesel, , 392 LPG Irrigation Engine, 84 F250 w/6.9 HyperMax Turbo, 2000 F350 PowerStroke, Cadets-60, 111, Cub Cadets-Original, 70, 100, 127, 1450. Literature collection too!


#8 Allan in NE

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 07:44 AM

Darned if I know,

I've got a neighbor that used to have one used as a custom cutter. He absolutely ran the wheels off that thing. Swears that they just work great.

It's just the "unknown" thing here that has me hesitating 'cause it really is a sweet little machine for the money. My New Holland has absolutely nothing between the sickle and crimpers. The hay just seems to "get there" somehow. :D

Allan

#9 664 CDN

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 08:48 AM

Darned if I know,

I've got a neighbor that used to have one used as a custom cutter. He absolutely ran the wheels off that thing. Swears that they just work great.

It's just the "unknown" thing here that has me hesitating 'cause it really is a sweet little machine for the money. My New Holland has absolutely nothing between the sickle and crimpers. The hay just seems to "get there" somehow. :D

Allan


If you can buy it reasonable, go for it.
The 239 germans all had weak front seals, lucky they are easy to change.
As for the crimper picking up the hay you would only have a problem if the hay is real short.
anyway find a bit of grass that you can try it on before you buy it if you are still doubtfull.
Ray
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510 sm plow, 70 plow, 415 roller mulcher, 1300 9ft mower, 2350 mount o matic loader, 990 haybine
Dad,s 1940 Farmall A

#10 farmall57

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 10:52 AM

From the brochures I have it specifically says for the single auger header that the conditioner is mounted to the header and the crop does not touch the ground. For the dual auger header it does not say, but from these pictures of the dual auger I'm thinking the crimper does pick the hay up off the ground. (the picture of the header with hay is from the 375 brochure but the same basic design)

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3788, 856, 666 w/F11, 240 w/Wagner backhoe, 4136 IH Skid Steer, 3850 Payloader, 350 Diesel utility, 300, M (2), H (2), Super C, 58 A110, 59 B160, 62 C120 4x4, 66 Scout, 68 Scout, 68 Travelall, 71 Loadstar 1600, 75 Loadstar 1700 4x4 w/Coleman axle, 71 1110 4x4, 73 1210 4x4 (3), 74 150 4x4, 74 Scout w/Chrysler 440, 78 Traveler, 80 Scout Diesel, 80 Terra Diesel, , 392 LPG Irrigation Engine, 84 F250 w/6.9 HyperMax Turbo, 2000 F350 PowerStroke, Cadets-60, 111, Cub Cadets-Original, 70, 100, 127, 1450. Literature collection too!




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