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7110 magnum hydraulics


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#1 Pat

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Posted 29 April 2006 - 10:11 PM

This year I'm using a JD7200 vac planter behind my 7110 tractor and after having the JD service guy out to try to get the vac to work and have power to raise and lower the planter and trying advice from several posters on various boards I finally got it working acceptably. Right now the vacuum motor runs off remote #2 with the return draining to the sump and #3 controls up/down. The vac still slows down when raising, but seems to keep the seeds on the disks until the flow picks up again.

The 7200 planter had a flow control valve in the pressure line and it turned out that removing it made the vacuum motor run fast enough to hold seed. Before removing the FCV I was half way started on installing an IH pto pump - it would have been very Rube Goldberg (unless I can find the smaller pump setup). Anyway, I checked the compensator valve on the tractor pump and it seemed ok, there were no broken springs in the bottom of the #1 remote valve and I'm wondering what else I might consider. I'm told I should be able to run the vacuum pump on #1, adjust the flow so it's more than enough and still use #2 and #3 to lift the planter. Any ideas?

Thanks, Pat

#2 SDman

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Posted 29 April 2006 - 11:00 PM

I hope I can explain this right the first time, so here it goes....

Your last sentence is correct, with the exception of the statement of adjusting the flow on #1 remote so that it is "more than enough". "More than enough" is too much, you want just enough flow to run the vacuum fan at desired speed-no more, no less. Once that is satisfied, #2 and all other remote circuits(and the 3 pt. hitch) will function. However, if #1 remote is put into a situation where it can't satisfy its function, then you have a problem. If #1 remote is "locked" into place by means other than the detent setting of the valve, #2 remote on down will not work. This could include holding the lever in place with tarp strap, bolt, etc. or if somebody screws the detent on #1 all the way in, eliminating the detent function of the valve. If you want to use #1 remote(don't have to if you don't want to), you MUST use the tractor's flow control(and ONLY the tractor's flow control) to control the vacuum fan on the Deere planter. Now, in most situations I have ever run into, the Deere planters need about 3-4 GPM to run their vaccum motors correctly, which is certainly within the acceptable range of a Magnum remote valve(2-22GPM is the range), but is toward the lower end of the flow range. You will probably have to adjust the flow control down at the valve itself since on a 7100 series the flow control in the cab does not work throughout the entire working range of the valve. If the flow control in the cab cannot slow the vacuum fan down enough, then you will need to adjust the external connection on the top of the remote valve to slow down the flow enough to run the Deere planter satisfactorily. In certain situations, the flow control of the valve cannot be slowed down enough to get the vacuum fan to run slow enough. then you will need a "loop hose" or "bypass hose" setup to dump the extra oil to get you down below rates of 2GPM at the remote valve.

If none of this makes sense-try this. Lower the 3 pt. hitch of your Magnum all the way down. Now, hold #1 remote lever in either raise or lower position with your hand and then try to raise the 3pt. hitch. It won't raise because the #1(priority) remote is not satisfied due to you holding the lever on demand. Let go of the #1 lever and now your hitch will raise. Now, think of your planter's vacuum control in the same terms of holding/not holding the #1 remote lever. If the detent of #1 remote is all that is used to hold the #1 remote lever into the operating position(without screwing in the detent spring to eliminate the detent), the system will work fine. If you are using something to "force" the #1 remote to stay on, all the other remotes will not work.

Hope this makes sense...
CNH Master Technician on the following products-Steigers, Magnums, Combines, Planters, Air Seeders, and Precision Farming.
Titan Machinery Inc. Highmore, SD

#3 FarmerFixEmUp

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Posted 29 April 2006 - 11:27 PM

SDman, How about a 50 series tractor? They have a small lever designed to lock the #1 remote lever in the motor run position. You then push it to float to turn off the oil flow. I've seen people run orbit motors etc off the #2,3,or 4 hydraulic valve, and not the priority #1. Is it like you stated before, it's apparently using all the oil and needs to be run on another circuit?
Farming and Fixing, I fix and farm with red stuff, mostly. Usable tractors are 5288, 1466, 1066, 1206, 826, 806, 756, 656, 800 and 950 planters, 4800 field cultivator, plus other misc, and a yellow TR combine. Also an S1700 grain truck. Also a fun '71 Chevelle! And a '40 M to restore when I get time! 966 M&W turbo.

#4 SDman

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 12:00 AM

Unfortunately, books could be written on priority valve hydraulic systems for years and all that would get accomplished is that the "confused" would even be "more confused' after reading everything about them.

First off, the IH 50 series hydraulic system is more or less the same hydraulic system the Magnums used up through the 8900 series Magnums. #1 remote is priority on all of them. Now, IH tended to refer to the #1 remote valve in a lot of their information(sales lit., service manuals, etc.) as the "motor valve"; therefore everyone thinks #1 remote is for running hydraulic motors , which is not entirely correct. Back when IH was IH, many tractor hydraulic systems were rather skimpy for running hydraulic motors which were moving to the forefront of agricultural equipment in the 70s & 80s. With IH's PPH system, a motor could be hooked to #1 remote valve and would operate at a nearly constant RPM no matter what other hydraulics were used at the same time. At the time, this probably was a "selling feature" of an IH tractor, since most tractors at that time were open center or else ran a closed-center high-pressure system like Deere did at the time.

When the Magnums came out in the later 80s, there were many hydraulic motor applications anymore so the #1 remote valve became to known as (more correctly) the "priority valve", since it dedicated a priority flow to the #1 remote circuit. Therefore, the #1 remote circuit was supposed to have the "most important" function hooked to it, whether it was a motor or any other implement circuit hooked to it. Unfortunately, all the confusion surrounding the "priority valve" has made it a nemisis to many a farmer, mostly due to misunderstanding how the system works. If you have an implement that you are not sure of which circuit to hook to #1 remote( or don't care, for that matter), then do not use #1 remote and save yourself some grief. However, if you have a circuit which MUST operate when called upon, hook that up to #1 remote. Some implements(CaseIH's 1200PT planters for example) specificlly tell you NOT to hook any of its circuits up to a priority valve.

Like I said before, the 50 series hydraulics operate the same as a Magnum in this matter. If the 50 series lever is locked in place and the hydraulic system is operating at a pressure higher than the detent setting for the #1 valve, all other remotes and the 3 pt. hitch will not operate.
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#5 Pat

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 06:55 AM

Thanks SDman, it makes sense and I have used the #1 remote and tried the 3 point and found it didn't work - just like you said. It seems when the #1 lever is put in the motor position (with the lock), it didn't flow very much at all (a piece of cardboard made it flow more - just like your bungee cord example)and I don't remember if I had function from the other remotes (I need to check that again).

My flow controls are sticky and thank God the adjustment at the valve stack are in front (not easy to get at, but accessible) - I adjusted flow with a 1/2 wrench, but was unable to move it any more than the small lever in the cab. It also did not make any difference to the flow.

Since it's rained I need to go back and try the #1 lever when it's just against the motor stop and see if I can adjust flow. Will I need to disconnect the flow lever so I can adjust more at the valve stack or does the flow valve only turn as much as the lever turns it anyway?

Thanks again,

Pat

PS: by "more than enough" I meant it should have ample capacity for the vacuum motor - not that I would run the vac motor too fast.

#6 FarmerFixEmUp

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 07:01 AM

I was just wondering because I just put a used Rawson hydraulic drive on my 900 planter and haven't gotten it all finished and running yet. Also put on 2 more remote valves so I now have 4. I'm not sure if I should hook the Rawson to the #1 or which? I do have the orbit return line on my 5288.
Farming and Fixing, I fix and farm with red stuff, mostly. Usable tractors are 5288, 1466, 1066, 1206, 826, 806, 756, 656, 800 and 950 planters, 4800 field cultivator, plus other misc, and a yellow TR combine. Also an S1700 grain truck. Also a fun '71 Chevelle! And a '40 M to restore when I get time! 966 M&W turbo.

#7 MOChad

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 07:11 AM

Pat

Does the detent work on #1? It sounds to me like you need to adjust the detent pressure.

Chads
Present CaseIH 7140, 7120, 5240, 5140, IH 5488, IH 1466, 966. 1480

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#8 SDman

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 10:15 PM

Will I need to disconnect the flow lever so I can adjust more at the valve stack or does the flow valve only turn as much as the lever turns it anyway? 


Pat

Pat, you will need to loosen the jam nut that locks the flow control valve to the flow control cable to adjust it more than the flow control in the cab will allow. That was the problem with the flow control setup on the 7100 series Magnums, the flow control at the valve offerred 270 degrees of rotation, but the flow control cable from the cab offerred about 180 degrees of rotation, so the flow controls were a compromise at best-you could either set them for max. flow and not get minimum flow(which is where most were set) or you could set them to minimum flow and not get max. flow(which is where you need to set the remote that runs the Deere vacuum motor). Loosen the jam nut(9/16" wrench size, I believe) and turn the hex coupler that is fastenened to the flow control stem at the top of the valve(1/2" wrench to turn the hex coupler). You will probably find that you can turn the flow control on the valve some more and that should get you down to your minimum flow setup for your planter fan. Then you can tighten up your jam nut/hex coupler setup at the flow control and then use your in-cab flow control to get the vacuum you desire.

Now, the detent pressure setting that Chad alluded to may also be causing a problem. A detent that is set too low will cause you lots of grief in this area as well. The detent should hold your lever in place without needing "something else" to hold it in place(bungee cord, or whatever else). The "lock" that everyone refers to on a Magnum #1 remote quadrant in the cab is meant to make sure the operator pushes the lever up into float position when he wants to turn the motor off instead of moving the lever to neutral-this is so the fan motor can coast down smoothly instead of slamming to a stop; it is not meant to lock the lever in place. To adjust the detent, look at the lower part of each remote valve; towards the front part of the bottom of each valve will be a 15/16" wrench-size locknut holding an adjusting screw that takes a 1/4" allen wrench to turn it. The #1 detent adjusting screw will be right above the park lock linkage on a Magnum-you may have to move the shift lever out of park into neutral to access the detent adjuster(do this on a FLAT SURFACE if you must move the lever out of park). Now loosen the locknut and turn the detent adjuster a quarter-turn or so clockwise to raise detent pressure-raise it enough so that the detent will hold the lever in place(may need more than a quarter-turn; it depends how low the detent is set right now). If you were running on any other remote, I would tell you to turn it in a couple turns so that the lever will "lock" into place by itself; but I hesitate to tell you to do this on #1 remote due to the priority valve-anytime you get to high-pressure the other remotes and 3pt. won't work(as you have found out).

I hope this will help you out; let me know if it is "clear as mud".
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#9 Pat

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 05:30 AM

Thanks again, it's becoming clearer now - my cardboard was acting as the detent - the lever would not stay in the detent position at all. Before posting here, a local parts guy told me the only repair parts they have sold for the magnum hydraulics is a detent assembly, so I picked one up ($160). I'm going to try adjusting mine first to see if I can get the detent to function with the motor on and confirm if it's only an adjustment problem before committing to the $160.

Thanks,

Pat



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